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By Narbia
#64588
Beat me to it!
ESSAI POUR LE RACING! Le nouvel arrivant, Henry Arundell casse la ligne de défense toulonnaise, sur les 40 mètres. Son accélération est dévastatrice. Il réduit l'écart.
Absolument incroyable.!! :clap:
By RinTin
#64600
Ajax Treesdown wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:29 pm
RinTin wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:13 pm
Defensively he looked poor again though.
He is 21 years of age.
He's an internationally capped player who has 2 years top flight experience comprising 40 first class matches for club and country. Being 21 is not an excuse.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#64602
Whilst I agree with the main gist of your point @RinTin , I'm pretty sure Arundell only has about half that number of first class games. I do sometimes wish the attacking prowess outweighed the defensive issues in coaches minds.
By SimonG
#64604
poyntonshark wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:23 am
Whilst I agree with the main gist of your point @RinTin , I'm pretty sure Arundell only has about half that number of first class games. I do sometimes wish the attacking prowess outweighed the defensive issues in coaches minds.
It seems it does as far as his current club's coaches are concerned and if there are some weak points in the game of a 21 year old it is hardly a major surprise and I would imagine that at that age there is a slight possibility his game might improve in certain areas!
By GHA
#64605
Arundell - 27 club games, 1,133 minutes (equivalent to just over 14 games), 13 tries.

International level - 330 minutes (equivalent to just over 4 games), 7 tries.

Under the current England set-up it seems kick chase outweighs defensive prowess and both outweigh attacking prowess, unfortunately.
By RinTin
#64606
Apologies, my game total included 3 U20's games for England. He's played 34 top flight matches for club and country.

My point is a very simple 1 - we know how good he can be on attack, his problem is not scoring tries, it is the rest of his game. This is what needs to be worked on. Christian Wade scored hat tricks galore and could tear defenses apart, but the rest of his game was sub par so he couldn't step forward.

Arundell is block buster, a fantastic prospect. I just get frustrated by many praising him purely for try scoring when so much of his game lets him down. He's being overhyped.
By SimonG
#64607
RinTin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:30 pm
Apologies, my game total included 3 U20's games for England. He's played 34 top flight matches for club and country.

My point is a very simple 1 - we know how good he can be on attack, his problem is not scoring tries, it is the rest of his game. This is what needs to be worked on. Christian Wade scored hat tricks galore and could tear defenses apart, but the rest of his game was sub par so he couldn't step forward.

Arundell is block buster, a fantastic prospect. I just get frustrated by many praising him purely for try scoring when so much of his game lets him down. He's being overhyped.
In your opinion he is being over-hyped. An alternative opinion is that he is a hugely talented 21 year old who is worth a place in a top-level team at the moment and who has plenty of time to improve the weaker points of his game.

But whichever view you take it seems his coaches are more than happy with him and I would suggest it is their opinion that matters.
RinTin, Lazyboy346 liked this
By RinTin
#64608
SimonG wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:08 pm
RinTin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:30 pm
Apologies, my game total included 3 U20's games for England. He's played 34 top flight matches for club and country.

My point is a very simple 1 - we know how good he can be on attack, his problem is not scoring tries, it is the rest of his game. This is what needs to be worked on. Christian Wade scored hat tricks galore and could tear defenses apart, but the rest of his game was sub par so he couldn't step forward.

Arundell is block buster, a fantastic prospect. I just get frustrated by many praising him purely for try scoring when so much of his game lets him down. He's being overhyped.
In your opinion he is being over-hyped. An alternative opinion is that he is a hugely talented 21 year old who is worth a place in a top-level team at the moment and who has plenty of time to improve the weaker points of his game.

But whichever view you take it seems his coaches are more than happy with him and I would suggest it is their opinion that matters.
I agree with your alternative opinion absolutely. In order to allow the other parts of his game to develop he needs to be left alone. The media surrounding him since Sunday is unbelievable. Googling his name makes it seem like he is the Messiah. Hell I can't remember the last time the BBC did an article on a French club game. That's why the opinion that he is being over hyped is not all that unreasonable.

The lad needs to play. Any team would take him I agree. His coaches prior to Racing were the England team and they weren't more than happy. We don't know if his current coaches are more than happy, we can only assume. His poor defence did let Toulon in lets not forget.
SimonG liked this
By GHA
#64609
RinTin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:52 pm
I agree with your alternative opinion absolutely. In order to allow the other parts of his game to develop he needs to be left alone. The media surrounding him since Sunday is unbelievable. Googling his name makes it seem like he is the Messiah. Hell I can't remember the last time the BBC did an article on a French club game. That's why the opinion that he is being over hyped is not all that unreasonable.
He's a 21-year-old English player scoring a hat-trick on his Top 14 debut. There were a few articles about Zach Mercer on the BBC Sport website when he was over there.
RinTin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:52 pm
His coaches prior to Racing were the England team and they weren't more than happy. We don't know if his current coaches are more than happy, we can only assume. His poor defence did let Toulon in lets not forget.
His coaches at Irish were more than happy. But then again, Racing and Irish like / liked to keep ball in hand and chuck it around, so maybe that's why the coaching staff in the England team weren't more than happy..?
By Florida
#64614
94m made
7 defenders beaten
2 line breaks
3 tries
From 6 carries

This from a kid that suffered a huge injury before anyone knew his name, at a time when the world was locked down but had the mental fortitude and dedication to come back fitter, stronger and faster and then announced himself in spectacular fashion, was out injured for a large part of last season, lost the club he'd been at since he was 13, moved country and hasn't had a break from rugby over the summer.

Forget all that though, let's focus on the fact his defense isn't spot on. We'll ignore the part about he's had what 2 or 3 weeks with a new team and unlikely to know their defensive structures or patterns particularly well.

Overhyped? No, he's a game winner. Will he round out his game and become the complete package? No idea but as long as he can keep a hush falling over a stadium when he gets the ball then I think rugby will be in a decent place.
Narbia, GHA liked this
By GHA
#64617
He announced himself and kept announcing himself too @Florida - the U20s tries (including debut), the Premiership tries before injury, the Worcester try on return from injury, the Toulon try, the England tries (including debut and first touch), the World Cup tries (including debut) and now the Top 14 tries on debut.
By SimonG
#64618
RinTin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:52 pm
SimonG wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:08 pm
RinTin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:30 pm
Apologies, my game total included 3 U20's games for England. He's played 34 top flight matches for club and country.

My point is a very simple 1 - we know how good he can be on attack, his problem is not scoring tries, it is the rest of his game. This is what needs to be worked on. Christian Wade scored hat tricks galore and could tear defenses apart, but the rest of his game was sub par so he couldn't step forward.

Arundell is block buster, a fantastic prospect. I just get frustrated by many praising him purely for try scoring when so much of his game lets him down. He's being overhyped.
In your opinion he is being over-hyped. An alternative opinion is that he is a hugely talented 21 year old who is worth a place in a top-level team at the moment and who has plenty of time to improve the weaker points of his game.

But whichever view you take it seems his coaches are more than happy with him and I would suggest it is their opinion that matters.
I agree with your alternative opinion absolutely. In order to allow the other parts of his game to develop he needs to be left alone. The media surrounding him since Sunday is unbelievable. Googling his name makes it seem like he is the Messiah. Hell I can't remember the last time the BBC did an article on a French club game. That's why the opinion that he is being over hyped is not all that unreasonable.

The lad needs to play. Any team would take him I agree. His coaches prior to Racing were the England team and they weren't more than happy. We don't know if his current coaches are more than happy, we can only assume. His poor defence did let Toulon in lets not forget.
I think we are broadly in agreement. Certainly there is a lot of hype around him but that is nothing new nowadays in sport. Too much space to fill in all the various sports media and an audience that seemingly requires instant heroes and instant villains does little to help. As for the BBC having an article on a French club game well I seem to remember loads last season when Finn Russell was playing in the Top 14. I don't think it's at all unusual when a home player has a good game elsewhere.

All coaches seek improvement from their players but the fact that he was and is being selected regularly by his club sides when fit suggests they are happy with him. Internationally is a different matter of course and there are very few places to be had and not being in the team doesn't necessarily mean the coaches aren't happy with you just that they are happier with others.

I didn't see the game so I don't know if it was his poor defence in particular that was responsible for Toulon's tries but even if it was it could certainly be argued that his three tries more than compensated and he finished the game in credit. Presumably that would depend on whether you are a glass half full or a glass half empty person.

To be clear I think he is far from the finished article and he does indeed need time to develop but give the lad some credit on his debut. I think he deserved better than your initial post.
RinTin liked this
By GHA
#64674
23 minutes on the pitch, zero points conceded in that time, away against the top of the league. Hopefully there's a BBC Sport article on how good his defence was...
User avatar
By Narbia
#64733
GHA wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:09 pm
23 minutes on the pitch, zero points conceded in that time, away against the top of the league. Hopefully there's a BBC Sport article on how good his defence was...
Bump to the top.

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