[shimmieandshake]

London Irish:

15 Tom Parton, 14 Ben Loader, 13 Curtis Rona, 12 Theo Brophy Clews, 11 Ollie Hassell-Collins, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Nick Phipps, 1 Allan Dell, 2 Agustin Creevy, 3 Ollie Hoskins, 4 Steve Mafi, 5 George Nott, 6 Sean O’Brien, 7 Ben Donnell, 8 Matt Rogerson (c)

Replacements:

16 Matt Cornish, 17 Will Goodrick-Clarke, 18 Lovejoy Chawatama, 19 Rob Simmons, 20 Blair Cowan, 21 Ben Meehan, 22 Terrence Hepetema, 23 Will Joseph




Wasps (First-team appearances)

15 Matteo Minozzi (26)
14 Zach Kibirige (36)
13 Juan de Jongh (64)
12 Michael Le Bourgeois (47)
11 Josh Bassett (137)
10 Jacob Umaga (39)
9 Will Porter (26)

1 Tom West (44)
2 Tom Cruse (94)
3 Jeff Toomaga-Allen (33)
4 Will Rowlands (100)
5 James Gaskell (132)
6 Brad Shields (40) (c)
7 Gabriel Oghre (33)
8 Tom Willis (32)



Replacements
16 Tommy Taylor (81)
17 Ben Harris (71)
18 Nicky Thomas (0)
19 Levi Douglas (7)
20 Sione Vailanu (22)
21 Ben Vellacott (13)
22 Charlie Atkinson (10)
23 Jimmy Gopperth (118)

[shimmieandshake]

Excuse the messy formatting.

I think we have a good shot in this game. Hope Albert's just rested, rather than injured. A rest would make sense; his workload has been huge for 18 months.

I doubt we'll see him if the game is tight, but intriguing to see Will Joseph on the bench, and would love to see him get a run out.

I think the forwards benching for us are much stronger than theirs, and that could decide the game.

[GC89]

Interesting selection. I personally would have stuck with the starting props after the way they have gone the past few weeks, but I understand the need for rotation in that position.

As you say, got to assume Albert is being rested or is just suffering from a very minor niggle. I thought after a few quieter weeks he was back to his best against Bristol, but he has played a lot of Rugby and usually for the full 80 minutes.

The backs look good and I've got a good feeling about Joseph's ability to step up to this level, but we will see whether he is needed or not.

Think this is going to be a tight one, but really hope we can nick a win.

[Narbia]

Wasps have gone a bit off the boil. At some point they'll come roaring back, let's hope we can delay that tomorrow.

Wasps slight bookies' favourites. Let's prove 'em wrong.

[GHA]

We don't help ourselves with some penalties, and the ref doesn't help with some others. But the lack of a yellow for Umaga slapping the ball forwards is on all the officials not just one IMO

Hopefully we can get back on side, increase the pressure a bit, and turn that pressure into points

[Narbia]

Well, just kept our heads sufficiently to grind that out.

[GHA]

Well, just kept our heads sufficiently to grind that out.

Looking forward to seeing the stats, penalties in particular. Felt like we spent 37 minutes of the second half in their half

[shimmieandshake]

Not much to say about a turgid game, other than SOB showed his class and it's been a genuine pleasure to watch the improvement of WGC and Lovejoy this season. Both of them have come on leaps and bounds; both first choice in their position now, really.

[SixNineOne]

Well, I suppose not all our games can be edge of the seat displays of point scoring, but it’s good to see us win at the Ricoh. Those final minutes were very reminiscent of the match there last season where we managed a last minute turnover on our 5 metre line to save the match. Overall it was a very frustrating display with passes not going to hand and the line out going wrong every time we got into their 22. We’ve got to do something about the line out because we’re squandering so many opportunities at the moment. But I suspect our frustration will be nothing compared to that of the Wasps supporters (particularly if they’re also England supporters) with their constant stream of penalties.

[GHA]

Crikey, just seen we are four points off third and we're halfway through the season!

[Hsmith18]

The bench made a big impact again, the two substitute props were brilliant and heps again added real zip to our attack. O'briens best game for us too

[GHA]

Of all the deliberate knock ons in the Premiership that haven't ended in a yellow card, I think this is my favourite:

https://streamable.com/xgki8g

[Iron Lung]

That was closer than it needed to be. With all the territory and possession we had in the second half we should have been out of sight.

I suppose the fact we ground out the win is a positive, I think the majority of us were half expecting us to let it go at the end but credit where it's due, this team is tough and I look forward to seeing them mature further over the course of the season.

[Stevie J]

I hope at one point this season we can coast to a win. My heart can’t take these close back and forth games every week! As others have said, we really should have sown that up earlier, we made more than enough line breaks but at the end we either made a mistake or Wasps turned us over.

Fair play to Wasps defence, it was a lot better than I thought it would be. But their indiscipline made us look like angels.

Few other thoughts;

• WGC and Lovejoy seem to be our in-form props and that is another testament to the Championship. Once both came on our scrum started going forward and winning penalties.
• I might have to rewatch the highlights or full game but scoring pass aside (and it was great under pressure) I thought Theo had a bit of a stinker. Too many offloads in bad places for one thing. Hepetema looked good off the bench again and I fancy him to start on Friday versus a well rested Tigers outfit.
• Basics. If I scream it loud enough every week maybe someone in Sunbury can sort it out. Restarts are a lottery and the line out was off the boil until Simmons came on. Overall his impact once he came on was vital, he was in support on a great break, shame that it was a turnover close to their line.
• Hopefully SOB is not broken. When fit, he really shows up and is increasingly impactful. I’d expect Cowan to start Friday anyway with only 6 days to prepare so hopefully he can make the bench.

[Margin_Walker]

You're right on the close games. I know we are winning games, so I'm being greedy, but one of these days I just want a regulation win. One where we're in control and can relax for the last ten or fifteen minutes. One where we can get the likes of Joseph (or Green the other week) on the pitch. I was tearing my hair out at those two pens that marched them down the pitch at the end. Out of control tackle by Blair (he made up for it tbf) and the needless challenge in the air from Simmons.

Overall though, it's nice to come out on top in those scrappy ones and finally be competitive.

Agree that Lovejoy and WGC are definitely 1st choice and are a real handful in the scrum. WGC in particular is looking a real find. Hoskins is in an interesting position. He offers a huge amount around the park at tighthead and got through a mountain of tackles, but he's still not a safe pair of hands at scrum time.

Agree on Simmons. What surprises me about him, is how hard and fast he hits the line in attack for a tall skinny (for a lock in this league) guy. Carries with real zip.

Anyway, amazing the difference in atmosphere now compared to the summer when we couldn't buy a win. Feels like we are going somewhere and more importantly are in a position where we may be finally able to build properly and retain the abundance of talent we have coming through.

[Narbia]

....
Looking forward to seeing the stats, penalties in particular. Felt like we spent 37 minutes of the second half in their half

That was my thought too. I don't know if it was deliberate, or a consequence of pressure, but I can't ever remember a game of rugby played by us, so much in the opposition half.

Anyway, last point on the Wasps game ; I thought their (line) defence was pretty sound.

So to Leicester Tigers......

[SixNineOne]

We have long had a saying in our family that if Irish are leading by less than 7 points at the 80 minute mark, we’ll lose the match. Although it may not be good for our collective blood pressures, it’s great that this is no longer automatically the case. But just thinking about our final dumb penalty, there seem to be lots of instances of players jumping across the line, Charlie Ewells’ effort in the England v Wales game was one such example, similar to Rob Simmons’ transgression. I’m wondering if it’s simply that the jumpers are dumb or does it happen because the lifters are careless or tired? Referees are very hot on it at the moment, so it’s something we need to work on, alongside actually catching the ball on our own throw!

[Margin_Walker]

Jumping across the line I wouldn't personally be too hard on. It can happen and often because things are timed/set wrong. Pretty sure the pen was for making contact in the air. He wrapped the opposition lock and came down with him. Really easy for the ref to see and blown as a pen 100% of the time.

[Margin_Walker]

Just watched the highlights and noticed TBC's role in the try we scored. Saw he gave the assist first time, but seeing it again you see that he was actually injured at that point. He took a big hit a few phases before and had just staggered to his feet in time to catch the ball in give it to Ollie before going to ground again. He went off for the HIA at that point.

Hopefully not too serious.

[GHA]

We have long had a saying in our family that if Irish are leading by less than 7 points at the 80 minute mark, we’ll lose the match.

And if Irish are less than 7 points behind with 10 minutes to play, we'll lose by two scores...

[GC89]

Wasn't the best display by any stretch, but the sort of game we definitely would have lost in recent seasons. Although the team now has a number of stars who have done it at the top level, it feels like the psyche of the team is still "plucky underdog" and we therefore seem to have a mentality of feeling like we need to score every time we have possession, which seems to lead to forcing offloads and trying overly complicated set piece moves. If we had kept things simple we could have won that by 15-20 points. Good to see some of the big names continue to deliver and I hope SOB's injury isn't too bad.

Leicester is going to be a real fist fight. Really hoping we have Albert back for that and he was just being rested for this one.

[GHA]

Many might disagree but I do think this is a team to build on rather than a team to currently and consistently challenge. Someone on the other board said we're now set and it's just a case of bringing Academy players in to fill gaps as and when older guys move on, but I'm not sure it's that straight-forward. I'd rather supplement and continue trying to improve on what we have - 'big' names such as Creevy, Coleman, Simmons, Mafi, O'Brien, Jackson, Rona have helped push us forward and I think that is the best strategy, albeit with a preferably younger age profile (which might be easier if we continue to move towards the right end of the table).

[GC89]

Definitely. If we can persuade some of the "younger" of those guys, like Coleman and Jackson, to stick around that would be good, but we can't bank on the academy guys necessarily filling all of the slots. It may be, as an example, that Munga can step up to fill the other lock slot, but I don't see anyone coming through who is necessarily guaranteed to fill the massive boots left by Cowan and SOB when they call it a day. It is going to be an interesting few seasons, but if we can consolidate in mid table and get some good European days I would take that after the last few years.

[Lazyboy346]

GHA, guessing that's probably my post on the other board that you mention.

Fair points by you and GC that this is just stepping stones rather than the finished article as a team. What we have seemingly go though is more stability than for much of the last decade and at a competitive level rather than being continuously the underdogs.

As I said elsewhere I still expect us to bring in about three to five players most seasons, but this is down from double figures for an extended period. The academy won't solve all our problems but given the salary cap has decreased significantly in two years I'd not be surprised if we see academy promotions as being about half of our recruitment each year for a while alongside one or two big names to fill tricky positions where we lack options and some unknowns with promise.

That means Parton, OHC, Cooke etc. will become part of the core as some of the bigger names retire/leave and are mostly replaced like for like, taking a leaf out of the Leinster recruitment manual of the last few years.

[SixNineOne]

It would be good to get as many through from the academy as possible, but I agree that we’ll also need to continue bringing in some experienced names as well. When I think of our academy products who are now established Premiership players it’s mainly backs who come to mind - I’m struggling to think of many forwards that we’ve turned out, unless you count the current crop of youngsters like Jack Cooke, Chunya Munga and Ben Donnell. And whilst I’d love to see Isaac CH and Izzy MA do well, I can’t really seeing them filling SO’B’s or Blair Cowan’s shoes.

[Ruckinggood]

Agree that Lovejoy and WGC are definitely 1st choice and are a real handful in the scrum. WGC in particular is looking a real find. Hoskins is in an interesting position. He offers a huge amount around the park at tighthead and got through a mountain of tackles, but he's still not a safe pair of hands at scrum time.

As an old scrummager and in defense of Hoskins, when you are paired with Dell at Loosehead, it becomes a bit of a lottery at scrum time. Dell is having a strange season but during the Wasps game he was very passive on the engage and got pinged and worked over leaving the hooker and tighthead hanging. Lovejoy is scrumming well which is good but does lack a lot around the park. I would be keen to see a WGC, Crevy and Hoskins front row for a fair comparison.

[GC89]

Interesting insight RG, will keep an eye out on Dell. He does seem to have been a bit inconsistent at scrum time. Not sure I agree on Lovejoy though. He carries well and puts in some good hits in defence.

[Margin_Walker]

Agree that Lovejoy and WGC are definitely 1st choice and are a real handful in the scrum. WGC in particular is looking a real find. Hoskins is in an interesting position. He offers a huge amount around the park at tighthead and got through a mountain of tackles, but he's still not a safe pair of hands at scrum time.

As an old scrummager and in defense of Hoskins, when you are paired with Dell at Loosehead, it becomes a bit of a lottery at scrum time. Dell is having a strange season but during the Wasps game he was very passive on the engage and got pinged and worked over leaving the hooker and tighthead hanging. Lovejoy is scrumming well which is good but does lack a lot around the park. I would be keen to see a WGC, Crevy and Hoskins front row for a fair comparison.

Not just going on the last game and acknowledge at the moment, that he'd look a little better opposite WGC at the moment. That said, Del is fundamentally decent in the scrum.

I would absolutely prefer Hoskins in the loose, if it were between him and Lovejoy, but in several seasons now with a variety of Looseheads (some not up to much admittedly), Hoskins has never been destructive at set piece. You're really just looking for parity when he plays. I think he admitted himself he really struggled to adjust at scrum time when he first came over here.

As a fan I'd always want my best scrummaging tighthead starting and sacrifice a little around the field to get it and at the moment, that's Chawatama for me. There's nothing worse than one of those games where you concede a pen every scrum (again, often when paired with Elrington tbf).

I do really like him though and he's a great option to have in the squad.

[Narbia]

As a fan I'd always want my best scrummaging tighthead starting and sacrifice a little around the field to get it and at the moment, that's Chawatama for me. There's nothing worse than one of those games where you concede a pen every scrum (again, often when paired with Elrington tbf).

Both WGC and Chawatama have that brute strength ability to get the ball through opposition traffic (leaving aside technique). Add Tuisue to the mix, and that's pretty decent gritty go-forward we've got.