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By poyntonshark
#1584
... cos he's made the squad

England Rugby World Cup squad announcement

Forwards:
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 86 caps) **
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 11 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 10 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 37 caps) *
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 27 caps)
George Kruis (Saracens, 32 caps) *
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 59 caps) *
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 72 caps) **
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 58 caps) *
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 22 caps)
Jack Singleton (Saracens, 1 cap)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 42 caps) *
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 53 caps) *
Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons / Sale Sharks, 13 caps)

Backs:
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 5 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 31 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 70 caps) *
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 56 caps) *
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 41 caps) *
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 45 caps) *
Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps) *
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 22 caps) *
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 33 caps) *
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 34 caps) *
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 86 caps) **

* number of Rugby World Cup tournaments played
By FarnhamShark
#1605
Can't understand only taking 2 tight heads. Does anybody know if one of the loose heads can play both sides of the scrum? If not, one injury and we're stuffed!
By Monty9
#1613
Congrats to Tom! Lets hope he plays like he did in the 6Ns and comes out an absolute star.

Still 5-6 weeks still our first WC game isn´t it?
By Oldgrayseadog
#1633
I feel Cipriani is not liked by certain members of the squad. Remember the look on Farrell's face in the background when Cipriani made that cross field kick to score vs SA. Why else wouldn't you take the Premiership's Player of the Year?
TeflonTed liked this
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By poyntonshark
#1657
A lot is being made of EJ leaving Cips out, but it's not like he is the first England Coach to decide that Cips didn't fit the plan. For me not fitting the plan is the whole point of Cips, but I understand why he wouldn't be included. Goode has had a few chances at International level and never really taken any of them. He is probably playing his best rugby ever and I would have taken him too, but again I understand why he would miss out.
By WillC
#1692
My issue is only 2 tightheads, seems madness
There seems to be quite a lot of criticism around about this but I don't really understand it. If a player gets injured then they can be replaced in the squad, so why do you need more than 2 (given the limited overall squad size)?
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By Yareet
#1699
WillC wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:58 pm
My issue is only 2 tightheads, seems madness
There seems to be quite a lot of criticism around about this but I don't really understand it. If a player gets injured then they can be replaced in the squad, so why do you need more than 2 (given the limited overall squad size)?
Because tighthead is an attritional role and is always a role which is subbed. As a consequnce teams need two per game. If we only take two, they are playing every game.
By WillC
#1719
Because tighthead is an attritional role and is always a role which is subbed. As a consequnce teams need two per game. If we only take two, they are playing every game.
I get that but there are only 31 spaces available. In simplistic terms 2 per position plus a spare. Assuming the spare is a prop any additional front row is at the expense of another position.

Perceived online wisdom seems to be that you take 3 each of the front row and 3 scrum halves. This only leaves you 19 picks for 11 positions. Further limited on matchday because you have to have 2 each of the front row and again perceived wisdom is 2 scrum halves. So for 8 of your 23 there is limited choice leaving 15 out of only 19 possibles. Plenty of those players are therefore playing every game.
User avatar
By Yareet
#1722
WillC wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:32 am
Because tighthead is an attritional role and is always a role which is subbed. As a consequnce teams need two per game. If we only take two, they are playing every game.
I get that but there are only 31 spaces available. In simplistic terms 2 per position plus a spare. Assuming the spare is a prop any additional front row is at the expense of another position.

Perceived online wisdom seems to be that you take 3 each of the front row and 3 scrum halves. This only leaves you 19 picks for 11 positions. Further limited on matchday because you have to have 2 each of the front row and again perceived wisdom is 2 scrum halves. So for 8 of your 23 there is limited choice leaving 15 out of only 19 possibles. Plenty of those players are therefore playing every game.
Which is why versatile players are key. Having somebody like Daly who can cover 11-15 (in some way) is a god send.

Putting a 13 on the wing for 20 minutes is far less gruelling than trying a hooker playing tight head for the same 20 minutes.

As another factor, there is typically one game in each group which should be easier. However where a lot of teams are starting their improvement is defence and the scrum so a lower tier oppo can still have a great scrum that will hurt an out of position prop.

The best scrum in the world (and therefore where a team needs it’s best props playing) is arguably Georgia. Also check out Brazil’s scrum on YouTube.

In the past we had props who can play both sides so you could take 5 and know you could rotate (Leonard, Stevens). The roles are now so specialised that this it’s less common so we are telling Cole and Sinkler that they will feature in every game. Although apparently Marler has been practicing at 3.
By WillC
#1730
I guess that is one of the reasons why the world cup is so interesting. Its not just about the best players or who you play but also about how you manage a limited squad (much more limited than any other tournament I think).

I am sure that Eddie has a plan and has thought it through (and presumably has access to more data than we do). If it works he will be praised, if not he will be panned.

Saw in a article somewhere that Ford has been training at 9 as well
User avatar
By Yareet
#1748
Yareet wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:44 am
WillC wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:32 am
Because tighthead is an attritional role and is always a role which is subbed. As a consequnce teams need two per game. If we only take two, they are playing every game.
I get that but there are only 31 spaces available. In simplistic terms 2 per position plus a spare. Assuming the spare is a prop any additional front row is at the expense of another position.

Perceived online wisdom seems to be that you take 3 each of the front row and 3 scrum halves. This only leaves you 19 picks for 11 positions. Further limited on matchday because you have to have 2 each of the front row and again perceived wisdom is 2 scrum halves. So for 8 of your 23 there is limited choice leaving 15 out of only 19 possibles. Plenty of those players are therefore playing every game.
Which is why versatile players are key. Having somebody like Daly who can cover 11-15 (in some way) is a god send.

Putting a 13 on the wing for 20 minutes is far less gruelling than trying a hooker playing tight head for the same 20 minutes.

As another factor, there is typically one game in each group which should be easier. However where a lot of teams are starting their improvement is defence and the scrum so a lower tier oppo can still have a great scrum that will hurt an out of position prop.

The best scrum in the world (and therefore where a team needs it’s best props playing) is arguably Georgia. Also check out Brazil’s scrum on YouTube.

In the past we had props who can play both sides so you could take 5 and know you could rotate (Leonard, Stevens). The roles are now so specialised that this it’s less common so we are telling Cole and Sinkler that they will feature in every game. Although apparently Marler has been practicing at 3.
Ireland’s solution

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/porter-h ... -loosehead
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By Mike Flitcroft
#2239
From The Times... "The Sale Sharks flanker has put on 6kg since his début in Argentina two years ago. “Physically, for a 21-year-old, he is incredible,” Jones said. “I haven’t seen a player like him. He’s strong, fast, he’s got an aggressive attitude and he wants to learn.”
Underhill, left, and Curry will again start in the flanker positions. “Kamikaze Kids”, Tom Curry and Sam Underhill, two open-side flankers picked together to operate either side of Billy Vunipola.
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