By Olyy
#24018
Congrats to Ashman and McGuigan for making the Scotland 6N squad

also to Sale old boy Cam Redpath - would prefer to see him in an England shirt, with the way he's been playing since the move to Bath, but wish him well all the same

Image
By ale shark
#24025
Maybe Sale insisted on Redpath remaining EQP but Bath weren't so bothered. Good luck to the guy, it's a shame but England's loss is Scotland's gain.

Is it not Italy who are after Paulo??? Must admit, I thought he was older than 23.
By Elgar
#24028
Maybe it's purely a case of full credit to Lee Blackett (and Paolo) but it makes me wonder what we (as well as Leicester to be fair) got wrong with / didn't see in Odogwu. He was playing 13 for Sale FC two years ago and I don't think anyone was that surprised to see him leave the club.
By Olyy
#24029
Maybe just the type of player that needs a run of games to get going?
Cam Redpath the same - didn't look anything special for us, get's a run of games for Bath and looks superb.

Paolo got a run of games under his belt due to injuries and looks better each time he runs out
By Elgar
#24031
Very possibly.

Redpath moving on seemed similar to me to the Ashton situation. In the sense that it was one of those personality clashes that one suspects will be handled a bit more... cerebrally, shall we say, going forward.

On Odogwu I suppose it should mainly be credit to Blackett. Because there are a handful of others at Wasps that have taken themselves up several levels very quickly under his watch.
By Van Cannonball
#24037
For Redpath there are 4 considerations I think.

1 - he had a very bad injury and it can take time to get over that

2 - it’s not that we didn’t want to keep him, but he wanted to go and Bath were prepared to Chuck money at him

3 - we did give him opportunities and he didn’t do enough in those games to make it a clear error to not keep hold of him

4 - most importantly, his style as a centre didn’t fit into how Sale wanted a centre to play at either 12 or 13. That’s not necessarily an issue for either Sale (our centres were great last season) or him, but just something that didn’t mesh.

For me it’s just one of those things and I’m glad to see him doing well.

Paulo will be interesting to see if it can be sustained or just a flash in the pan. He’s kept me winning in rugby draft so what’s good for him is bad for me...
Olyy, Flumpty, Bucks1861 liked this
By WillC
#24038
Van Cannonball wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:13 pm
For Redpath there are 4 considerations I think.

1 - he had a very bad injury and it can take time to get over that

2 - it’s not that we didn’t want to keep him, but he wanted to go and Bath were prepared to Chuck money at him

3 - we did give him opportunities and he didn’t do enough in those games to make it a clear error to not keep hold of him

4 - most importantly, his style as a centre didn’t fit into how Sale wanted a centre to play at either 12 or 13. That’s not necessarily an issue for either Sale (our centres were great last season) or him, but just something that didn’t mesh.

For me it’s just one of those things and I’m glad to see him doing well.
completely agree
Flumpty liked this
By Olyy
#24041
Van Cannonball wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:13 pm
For Redpath there are 4 considerations I think.

1 - he had a very bad injury and it can take time to get over that

2 - it’s not that we didn’t want to keep him, but he wanted to go and Bath were prepared to Chuck money at him

3 - we did give him opportunities and he didn’t do enough in those games to make it a clear error to not keep hold of him

4 - most importantly, his style as a centre didn’t fit into how Sale wanted a centre to play at either 12 or 13. That’s not necessarily an issue for either Sale (our centres were great last season) or him, but just something that didn’t mesh.

For me it’s just one of those things and I’m glad to see him doing well.

Paulo will be interesting to see if it can be sustained or just a flash in the pan. He’s kept me winning in rugby draft so what’s good for him is bad for me...
Aye, I don't blame Cam for leaving Sale,

We had Rohan and were bringing in Hill as our heavy centres (this was pre-Manu) and then he had both James brothers to contend with as playermaker 12s (/at 15, as I seem to recall he played there once or twice for us)
Bath had an opening at 12 and the money to buy him out of his contract - worked out well for all parties.
By Stet
#24042
eBike wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:54 pm
Paolo Odogwu called up into England squad as well. Good luck to him :yes:
The England squad has not been announced yet, so assume you are guessing with this one
By Olyy
#24112
Congratulations to TC for his inclusion in the England squad - also to old boy Paolo Odogwu on his call up

Image
By Van Cannonball
#24118
Have to wonder if Paulo would’ve had the call up if Italy wasn’t also an option. Given that Jones has called him up I hope he gets some decent chances rather than just a few mins to lock him down as English.
By Olyy
#24122
Randall's always said he's English/wants to play for England, to be fair

Though I do remember a certain new Scotland player who said he wants to play for England, not Scotland
By LJK
#24140
Newspaper report today that Dimes suggested Paolo O. to Eddie Jones some time back when he was still with us, for his power and ability to break the line. Odd that if he thought of him so highly event then why he didn't get more game time with Sale. Those with better memories than me may correct me but don't think he got that many starts, apart from a brief period presumably covering injury?
By chris1850
#24141
Yes, and only on the wing where he was susceptible under the high ball. Moving himto the centre seems to have been a shrewd move though, in fairness, he has only played a game or two there I think. He now has to show some consistency but good luck to him.
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#24146
Fwiw I think O'Flaherty of Exeter is unlucky on current form - but then EJ doesn't like Baxter's lot.
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By Elgar
#24147
Interesting it was his move to centre that seems to have been the catalyst but the other picks suggest he'll more likely cover the wing this 6 nations.
User avatar
By Yareet
#24149
Elgar wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:31 pm
Interesting it was his move to centre that seems to have been the catalyst but the other picks suggest he'll more likely cover the wing this 6 nations.
Dunno about that. 10-15 has a lot of flexibility with (IMO) only Ford, Lawrence & May covering only one position - assuming Slade is in as a reserve 10 again.
By WillC
#24173
LJK wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:43 am
Newspaper report today that Dimes suggested Paolo O. to Eddie Jones some time back when he was still with us, for his power and ability to break the line. Odd that if he thought of him so highly event then why he didn't get more game time with Sale. Those with better memories than me may correct me but don't think he got that many starts, apart from a brief period presumably covering injury?
29 senior appearances according to wikipedia (in 3 seasons)
By Thekeg
#24175
There’s all sorts of reasons why a player can suddenly make a big step up, he didn’t look great in his first season at wasps either. I think the potential has always been obvious but he had significant flaws holding him back. We tend to focus on the ones that improve after they leave but on the flip side we signed mcguigan as a relative unknown back up player and he’s arguably our best winger and made a breakthrough into international rugby with us.
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By ale shark
#24178
Didn't we only sign Paulo because he was Cirpiani's mate? or was that someone else? or have I made that all up?
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#24181
Oh Paolo has just re-signed for Sale (Cov) - that sounds a good deal for both parties- he was featured in yesterday's Sunday Times.

He was let go by Leicester despite scoring a great try v Argentina. He signed for Sale on a salary close to the minimum wage. In three seasons he scored seven tries in 29 games. Sale wanted him to stay but weren't desperate so he chose Sale (Cov) instead. This season he leads all rivals in line breaks and metres gained.
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#24183
Joe Launchbury and Joe Marler have withdrawn from the England squad
Charlie Ewels and uncapped Tom West will join up with the squad.
By Olyy
#24689
Congrats to Tom, starting vs Scotland
Starting alongside previous loanee Mark Wilson

15. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 47 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 46 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 34 caps)
12. Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 3 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 61 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (C) (Saracens, 88 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 104 caps)

1. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 23 caps)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 54 caps)
3. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 8 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 43 caps)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps)
6. Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 19 caps)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 28 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 56 caps)

FINISHERS
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 26 caps)
17. Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
18. Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 85 caps)
20. Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 8 caps)
21. Dan Robson (Wasps, 7 caps)
22. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 72 caps)
23. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 3 caps)
By ale shark
#24691
I hope Ben Earl gets at least 30mins. Doubt Vunipola will last more than 50, the guy is literally getting match fit in an England shirt.
Elgar liked this
By Elgar
#24716
ale shark wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:28 am
I hope Ben Earl gets at least 30mins. Doubt Vunipola will last more than 50, the guy is literally getting match fit in an England shirt.
Fully agree. I was expecting they might bring Vunipola off the bench rather than expect him be effective for more than 50 / risk an injury meaning that he does need to go the distance.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#24879
How Farrell stayed on for 80 is beyond me. He was awful, the game plan was awful. England got exactly what they deserved. I'm sure Scotland will enjoy the result, but they should be disappointed not to spank an England side that poorly.
By Shireshark
#24882
With the possession and territory stats Scotland probably should have won by 20+ points (maybe more) but when it comes down to the Calcutta Cup it's all about the final score.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#24883
Shireshark wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:47 pm
I think that's highly disrespectful to a Scotland side that just outplayed England for 75 of the 80 minutes tbh
I don't. Are you seriously telling me you believe England were anything but awful. I agree quite clearly Scotland were better, they deserved the win, they should rightly enjoy it. But when they get back and analyse it they shouldn't be happy with the performance. It's not as if they forced most of England's mistakes, England handed them possession and territory.
Yonah liked this
By Shireshark
#24887
I agree England were poor but I don't agree that their errors were all unforced. I thought that Scotland's intensity unnerved England and their tackling knocked them back time and time again after Itoje seemed to get into Ali Price's head in the first 20 mins. Scotland will be very happy with the win but yes, they themselves might have been more clinical at times to make it a great deal more comfortable.
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#24889
poyntonshark wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:41 pm
How Farrell stayed on for 80 is beyond me. He was awful, the game plan was awful. England got exactly what they deserved. I'm sure Scotland will enjoy the result, but they should be disappointed not to spank an England side that poorly.
The whole thing was doomed from the squad selection. Picking Sorries players and ignoring Exeter's was more than stupid. Jones waited far too long to change it. Ford should have replaced Lawrence at h-t and BV by Ben Earl. Why pick a strong bench and not use it?

The daft thing is that EJ won't pick form players. What's the point of him going to GP games when he relies on the Sorries lot of whom only Itoje showed? England reminded of Sale before Axe - lots of daft penalties (albeit some very harsh) , poor tactical kicking, poor use of subs.

Yes Brace was awful - he always is - but England should have known what was coming.

EJ - do your effing homework.
By SixNineOne
#24893
I think Scotland got it absolutely right. Their intensity, backed up by a more imaginative game plan, got England into one of their classic downward spirals where they kept making stupid errors and didn’t seem able to think their way out of the game. It was clear that Scotland wanted the game more than England did. There was a lot of talk about the lack of game time meaning that the Sarries contingent would be fresh, but to me they just looked rusty and error prone and even our bankers like Anthony Watson and Jonny May had shockers. If I were Eddie Jones, I’d now take the opportunity to use the rest of the 6 Nations games to mix things up a bit, but I very much doubt that will happen because that’s not in the script...
By StalyShark
#24894
Farrell didn’t have a clue how to play against the saffers in the RWC when going backwards. Watch Ford play in his iffy Tigers team each week. His brain just works 4/5 phases ahead. Farrell had had the Saracens pack bullying everyone for years and Ford at 10 when England have played well. Farrell might be the coach’s dream re standards and work ethic etc but he’s not got the brain to read the game as well as Ford.
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By ale shark
#24896
Well done Scotland. I hope I never have to watch that Hill bloke play for England again. Abysmal.

Pleased for Redpath, decent game.
By Olyy
#24897
Ollie Lawrence only touched the ball one time today - I imagine Redpath is pretty happy with his change of heart right about now


I've never understood the hype around Hill - he works well in Exeter's pack but nothing about him screams world class lock, to me.
I'm not surprised that once you take him out of that unit that he looks very average.
The issue, now, is that EJ is back to viewing Lawes as a flanker, so we're likely stuck with Itoje/Hill as the starters for the whole tournament - unless EJ takes a punt on Ewels (who I'm also not overly wowed by)
By ale shark
#24903
Ewels is as anonymous as Hill, worst England second rows since Mauritz Botha, got to go with Lawes. Exeter are just a bunch of slightly above average players coached well, take them out of that environment and they’re just average players. As we well know.

Vunipola is just a passenger. Daly can shove his big left boot.

For all England’s supposed depth if we’re second in the league then god help the national team.
By SixNineOne
#24904
I think we were really missing Joe Launchbury today. When Itoje is having one of his penalty-strewn days we need someone like Launchbury to do the hard graft, and I agree that Johnny Hill just didn’t deliver. I also agree with comments about Billy Vunipola - he’s a shadow of his former self and just looks unfit and uncommitted surely there are England qualified no 8s who are playing a bit better at the moment (but they’re stuck down in the West Country...)
By Streatham Shark
#24905
Eddie has to go. He's a spoofer who blames his teams' cyclical declines on anything other than his coaching and selection. This has happened in every team he's coached, including England. He got badly out-thought in the world cup final and was too rigid in his thinking to change. He picked out in the autumn series, and has been found out again. He's managed to pick the worst half back pairing in England yet again and refused to change it when it went wrong.

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