By RinTin
#40411
Game is still ongoing i know, but in light of the Byron incident I'm interested to know everyone's thoughts on the niggle, face rubbing, celebrating, pulling people into rucks, throwing balls away etc that is creeping more and more into the game?

For me - Byron over reacted, I thought yellow but I can see what it was a red. BUT Foley had penalised Maitland for the his gamesmanship against Akker literally 2 minutes before, so surely Tompkins (due to rubbing his head and laughing in his face) should have been carded for his behaviour as it was a deliberate act to get a rise?

I don't know, I'm just getting fed up with the amount of it going on. Refs need to start clamping down on it or it makes a mockery of the core values of rugby in my opinion
SimonG liked this
#40417
I agree, Tin.

That said if players let the referee and the TMO look for things the decision might have gone the other way.

Heaven forbid that had happened in a football game. Our horses can still be little high in rugby union.
#40427
Don't think Byron reacted to that. He was laid on top of Tompkins, as Tompkins got up he raised Byrons legs, cause they were on his back, as Tompkins got free Byron was dropped to the ground. That is what upset him. Can't see how it could possibly have been yellow. Byron hit him, then threw him to the ground twice, all 3 red card offences in their own right.
#40439
poyntonshark wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:00 pm
Don't think Byron reacted to that. He was laid on top of Tompkins, as Tompkins got up he raised Byrons legs, cause they were on his back, as Tompkins got free Byron was dropped to the ground. That is what upset him. Can't see how it could possibly have been yellow. Byron hit him, then threw him to the ground twice, all 3 red card offences in their own right.
The ref seemed to be saying that he saw it as two yellow card offences in quick succession.

Which two of the three I don't know. :shrug:
#40442
Olyy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:53 pm
Byron notorious for it himself, so very ironic for him to throw such a tantrum at it coming the other way

Should be an instant penalty, IMO - but that doesn't excuse Byron's actions, and the red card was very much the right call
My thoughts exactly - he always seems to play 'angry' - he's first in with niggle on every game. Lord knows why he saw the red mist on this occasion - always dishes it out - do that - you've got to take it back
#40444
Tompkins should have had a yellow for me. That kind of behaviour has no place in the sport and needs eradicating. Byron is a hothead. Always has been confrontational and it’s no surprise that he reacted to it. The throw to the floor was for me a red and hitting the hoarding was down to isikwe shoving Byron who had hold of Tompkins. I thought we should have had a penalty try just before that as an illegal tackle prevented the score. Our discipline was poor but a number of the penalties were at scrum time and the referee seemed to see everything in Sarries favour.
#40456
I agree with the OP that this kind of behaviour does need clamping down on. It’s another one that is treated with infuriating inconsistency. Remember a few seasons ago when Jono had a penalty reversed vs Falcons for ruffling someone’s hair (think they scored from it), yet within weeks similar actions were going unpunished. And there’s still loads of it.

Tompkins caused Byron to fall on his back, then goaded him, then tapped his head, so by rights he should have received a sanction. Not hard to imagine that that combination triggered Byron and for not keeping his cool, he received the sanction he deserved.
Flumpty liked this
#40459
Rintin is right. There is far too much gamesmanship creeping into the game and Saracens are arch proponents of it. Watched them closely today and every single opportunity they had they go out of their way to goad the opposition. Maitland particularly is a really unpleasant and gobby type but the whole team are constantly at it.

That said, Byron has always dished it out too so I have zero sympathy for him. He shouldn't have reacted as he did and deservedly was red carded.
WillC liked this
By RinTin
#40478
poyntonshark wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:00 pm
Don't think Byron reacted to that. He was laid on top of Tompkins, as Tompkins got up he raised Byrons legs, cause they were on his back, as Tompkins got free Byron was dropped to the ground. That is what upset him. Can't see how it could possibly have been yellow. Byron hit him, then threw him to the ground twice, all 3 red card offences in their own right.
Sorry Poynton Shark, but watching back I have to disagree on the reason behind the reaction. Byron didn't react until the hair ruffle and laugh in the face from Tompkins. I do agree that Byron was completely out of line with the response, but it was in reaction to Tompkins goading him.
#40480
JohnJ of HM wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:46 am
We should take a leaf out of the Rugby League Book. They are very quick to penalise the hair riffling etc.

Someone humour an old fogey and tell me what UFC is.
UFC-Ultimate fighting championship is mixed martial arts competitive fighting brand, the competitors combine boxing/wrestling/ jujitsu etc
By Elgar
#40485
Reacting the way he did was plain stupid. Cant' really complain about gamesmanship when you just walk into it as easily as that, very naive.

Can't see how it could have been anything other than a red (wouldn't be surprised at all to see a further sighting - you can't just start a fight with someone on the pitch and you especially can't keep going at them when they are clearly and deliberately not fighting back) and really you expect a lot, lot better from your senior players.

Can't remember the last time I saw a professional player lose their head as completely as that.
#40491
Elgar wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:10 am
Reacting the way he did was plain stupid. Cant' really complain about gamesmanship when you just walk into it as easily as that, very naive.

Can't see how it could have been anything other than a red (wouldn't be surprised at all to see a further sighting - you can't just start a fight with someone on the pitch and you especially can't keep going at them when they are clearly and deliberately not fighting back) and really you expect a lot, lot better from your senior players.

Can't remember the last time I saw a professional player lose their head as completely as that.
Might get the name wrong - didn't our prop Faure (spelling?) completely lose it versus Leeds a few years ago against the All blacks scrum half - bloke with blond hair
#40492
Surbiton,

I remember that incident well. I was sat in the front row at Headingley when Lionel Faure waded in on Justin Marshall and threw at least 4 or 5 punches right in front of us. A proper rugby match.......
Think Sale won that match 6-3 finishing with 13 men.
Happy memories
#40493
Surbiton,

I remember that incident well. I was sat in the front row at Headingley when Lionel Faure waded in on Justin Marshall and threw at least 4 or 5 punches right in front of us. A proper rugby match.......
Think Sale won that match 6-3 finishing with 13 men.
Happy memories
By Clutch
#40494
Imagine the ban for that now!! Well deserved anyway.

Why will Byron get a long ban. It’s a couple of throws. Not great danger. Essentially 2 yellow cards compounded. Second was as much about him getting pushed.

Red correct call, not sure on framework for non high tackle stuff but I’d expect 6 reduced to 3.
#40499
Does Byron have previous? I recall niggly incidents in the past, but not sure whether they resulted in cards. That will be a factor though, as will whether he pleads guilty or not. Or eats too many biscuits in a surly manner.
#40509
Was it 2 yellows or have I imagined that? Foley only showed him a red and not a yellow followed by a red. Does that make any difference? Talking of losing it the incident that came in to my mind was Tuilagi v Ashton with Barnes giving them both a yellow.
10 years on it still makes me wince

By Olyy
#40510
It was a straight red that was given, my interpretation of what he said was that it was essentially (at least/a minimum) two yellows so no real need to deliberate over it because it was a red regardless so no need to spend ages pouring over the footage
DavenportSharky liked this
By stevene
#40554
I dont think the TMO did Foley any favours at the weekend if I am honest. Yes sarries were guilty (as often they are) of gamesmanship but equally we are not shy in this regard either (usually Jono, Byron, Faf or Tom C).

I suspect Byron will get 4 weeks halved to two with a guilty plea, remorse, education course etc etc.
#40563
If I heard it correctly the TMO did call up a “sportsmanship” issue on the failed try in the move before the Byron incident. I don’t know if it was Tompkins but I thought the perpetrator had a 2 on his back, which Tompkins did.

I don’t think the ref did anything about it.
#40568
ale shark wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:09 pm
If I heard it correctly the TMO did call up a “sportsmanship” issue on the failed try in the move before the Byron incident. I don’t know if it was Tompkins but I thought the perpetrator had a 2 on his back, which Tompkins did.

I don’t think the ref did anything about it.
If we're talking about when Akker was tackled into touch (high?), I heard a reference to "a rugby values issue" and presumed that was why a penalty was awarded to us rather than a line-out to Sarries.
#40573
My recollection is that we got the penalty for Maitlands "unsportsmanlike behaviour against the values of the game" for his goading of Akker after being dragged into touch. First time I have knowingly seen this penalised and I wish it happened more often. Having said that, Sarries would be off the penalty Richter scale most weeks if it was.

I am sure that no mention was made at the time about the clear high tackle and hand in the face by Maitland who really is a most unpleasant individual
#40580
I think it’s interesting that Itoje was overlooked by Eddie J for either the captaincy or vice captaincy in the absence of Farrell. The media seem to have had him as captain elect since he was in nappies. It may just be Jones’ bloody mindedness to select against pressure but it maybe that he has worked out his example might not be what is needed.
#40582
Saracens have obviously discovered this unsportsmanlike bad behaviour since February 2020. I've just looked though all the posts for that game and the only mention I can find of such behaviour is "McGuigan diving on Segun after he scored and giving them another 3 points summed it all up."

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