[RugbyMarvel]

Fissler reporting in The Rugby Paper that Sanderson on lookout for a tighthead and also a back row, the latter due to injuries to JLDP and Ellis… (I suppose Tom also).

Certainly not many top quality tightheads knocking about without a club or sitting on a sides books and they don’t need them. Any thoughts on options?

Back row wise, possibly still some options about from the clubs that folded (although big hitters all snapped up an age ago). Sense if it’s for JLDP / Ellis, then we are looking at a hefty 6 style rather than 7.

[Olyy]

Shame Neild just signed for Glasgow for the rest of the season, from Edinburgh, would've been a good pickup

Possibly go snooping around the Championship for a tighthead? Was Jersey's scrum any good?

[Flumpty]

This chap was signed on a short term contract by Racing 92 for World Cup cover - if his face still fitted, I'd be happy.

[Bucks1861]

Quote


“Alex Sanderson's team went top of the Premiership table after beating Newcastle 40-22 on Friday night, and they are looking for a back row and a tighthead.

Sanderson needs cover until the end of the season at flanker and No.8 for Tom Ellis, who has made two appearances off the bench this season, and Jean-Luc du Preez, who is fighting a hamstring injury.

They would also like some more experience at tighthead and are looking into the transfer market to see who is available for a move.

[Olyy]

This chap was signed on a short term contract by Racing 92 for World Cup cover - if his face still fitted, I'd be happy.

If it were the WGJ that left us then definitely!
Didn't really work out for him in Wales between a series of big injuries and never really finding form between - I just looked and he got half hour off the bench in the opening round of the Top 14
Racing must have seen something in him to bring him across, if we were to be looking, and he were to be available, I think we could definitely do worse

[RinTin]

All the more frustrating that we missed out on Afolabi Fasogbon when LI folded.

Backrow wise has Gary Graham found a home yet? I know his contract in France was terminated before it started and he had already committed to leave Falcons.

[Olyy]

I vaguely remember reading that Carcassonne had found the money to keep their new signings, after all the stories of them tearing up contracts, so thing Graham did end up moving there in the end


Edit: Just checked their teamsheets and he is - didn't realise Fearns was there too!

[DavenportSharky]

https://www.coventryrugby.co.uk/sale-pr ... ntry-home/

I always thought he held the tighthead side well. He is only 28 so should be peaking as a prop. Seems strange to send him out on loan then say we are looking for a prop mid season. You would imagine that there are numerous Bok tightheads keen to have a sabbatical. Where is recruiting sergeant De Klerk when you need him?

[Olyy]

Seems strange to send him out on loan then say we are looking for a prop mid season.

My thoughts too - if he's getting minutes in his legs post injury (as mentioned in the article) then surely he'd be up to speed by the time we've found, recruited, and embedded a new player in the side?

My worry is that Schonert's absence this weekend is due to injury rather than resting him/testing others

[Dave L]

Tom Curry out for the season with a hip injury. Bugger.

Does that mean we have his salary cap space to bring in an injury replacement? Obviously whoever we could get would be unlikely to be his level of quality

[FarnhamShark]

Horrible news for Tom, and for SS. Trying to find a silver lining, though, if he could be back for the playoffs, that would be quite a bonus.

[DoctorSharky]

Awful news first and foremost for Tom. Have to feel for him after a horror few months, and no shortage of disgraceful abuse from Safrican ‘fans’.

Also awful news for us. Only potential redeeming factor is that he might be our marquee player or a top earner, potentially giving us some solid dispensation for a decent replacement (perhaps southern hemisphere).

To note on WG John, he’s been released by R92 and so is currently available. Although 8 appearances averaging ~44 mins at scarlets last season and a solidarity 40 mins for R92 in the opening round of top 14 doesn’t bode well.

I thought it was interesting that we released Coenie (presumably on a pretty pay packet given he signed as a springbok international TH) and didn’t bring in another tighthead apart from Asher (he was bright on Friday). Can only assume the Coenie money was used elsewhere in the squad.

Given the £ cap is going up next season, I wonder if there’s space for us to be creative and potentially bring in a top player on a multi year deal with the salary backloaded to 24-25 and 25-26. No names in mind, but always southern hemisphere players looking for a good experience in a world class city…

[Olyy]

That is really terrible news about Tom, and explains us looking for a backrower

I don't think you can backload contracts, for the purposes of the cap they take they average over the length of the contract

[Yareet]

Awful news first and foremost for Tom. Have to feel for him after a horror few months, and no shortage of disgraceful abuse from Safrican ‘fans’.

Also awful news for us. Only potential redeeming factor is that he might be our marquee player or a top earner, potentially giving us some solid dispensation for a decent replacement (perhaps southern hemisphere).

To note on WG John, he’s been released by R92 and so is currently available. Although 8 appearances averaging ~44 mins at scarlets last season and a solidarity 40 mins for R92 in the opening round of top 14 doesn’t bode well.

I thought it was interesting that we released Coenie (presumably on a pretty pay packet given he signed as a springbok international TH) and didn’t bring in another tighthead apart from Asher (he was bright on Friday). Can only assume the Coenie money was used elsewhere in the squad.

Given the £ cap is going up next season, I wonder if there’s space for us to be creative and potentially bring in a top player on a multi year deal with the salary backloaded to 24-25 and 25-26. No names in mind, but always southern hemisphere players looking for a good experience in a world class city…

That’s not how the cap works. We still have to pay Tom if he’s contracted to us. I believe there is an allowance to tear up a player’s contract if he is out for an extended period but that would leave Tom in the open market when he’s fit.

There is dispensation to pay for an extra player. I believe it’s a total £400k per year to be used across all medical jokers and you can only replace like with like. For a replacement for Tom, that’s fine but w couldn’t replace Asher with Malherbe.

[ale shark]

We’re top of the league without him and averaging less than 5,000 a home game, do the owners really want to chuck more money at a high value replacement?

[Olyy]

We're not going to be able to like-for-like replace one of the best flankers in the world mid-season anyway,

4. Cobus, EvR, Bamber
5. Hill, Beaumont, Groves
6. EvR, Birch, Cobus
7. Ben, Dugdale, Woodman
8. DDP, Birch, Beaumont

Is Jean-Luc due back in a month or so? Think 8 weeks was the initial diagnosis and that was about 4 weeks ago
Ellis out long term (most of the season?), I think?

I'm not sure we need an additional backrower - EvR and DDP are playing a lot of minutes atm, though, could do with a bit more rotation. Six Nations break will help r&r some tired bodies after European rounds.
3 and 9 are my biggest concerns - 9 because Gus is playing every minute and we can't afford him to break down and it doesn't look like Nye is trusted, 3 because Axe has said it's a position they're looking to recruit and that makes me think Schonert might be injured (and even if he's not our scrum has looked shaky at best this season).

[Dave L]

We're not going to be able to like-for-like replace one of the best flankers in the world mid-season anyway,

4. Cobus, EvR, Bamber
5. Hill, Beaumont, Groves
6. EvR, Birch, Cobus
7. Ben, Dugdale, Woodman
8. DDP, Birch, Beaumont

Is Jean-Luc due back in a month or so? Think 8 weeks was the initial diagnosis and that was about 4 weeks ago
Ellis out long term (most of the season?), I think?

I'm not sure we need an additional backrower - EvR and DDP are playing a lot of minutes atm, though, could do with a bit more rotation. Six Nations break will help r&r some tired bodies after European rounds.
3 and 9 are my biggest concerns - 9 because Gus is playing every minute and we can't afford him to break down and it doesn't look like Nye is trusted, 3 because Axe has said it's a position they're looking to recruit and that makes me think Schonert might be injured (and even if he's not our scrum has looked shaky at best this season).

That still looks pretty thin to me. We've still got six premiership games and two lots of European fixtures before the Six Nations break. That's a lot of rugby for EvR to play. Ben Curry, DDP and Beaumont have also had multiple long term injuries over the previous two seasons. If we're to maintain our league form you'd imagine Ben, DDP, EvR and Hill will have to start and play a good 60 minutes of every game. Are we going to play the kids in Europe?

Dugdale is an able replacement but I don't rate Birch as a Premiership starter. Woodman is a massive young talent but you can't just throw him in to an understrength team and expect him to play well. If any of the starters get injured we're in big trouble.

[RugbyMarvel]

We have to work out whether we trust Woodman or not. We gave the Curry Brothers a shot when both younger than him and other sides have done similar (Pearson, Pollock, Kenningham etc). I would give him the odd start in an otherwise full strength side to give him game time, rather than in a weakened side.

I think the same is for Nye Thomas, we will have to start trusting him and giving him some time soon. Again, do it with experienced players around him and not in the midst of a potential injury crisis

[RinTin]

I note Northampton gave Henry Pollock (openside) a good run out at the weekend. The lad is still only 18.

We need to put some faith in the young guys or what is the point in having them? Woodman for example has good base experience and is a member of the first team squad.

[RuggerPleb]

We need to put some faith in the young guys or what is the point in having them?

I remember, not many years ago, us having a ton of experience in Yarde (ex-England, playing well), McGuigan (Scotland International), Solomona (in England squad) and Ashton (returning to England squad), and thinking we were spoilt for choice in the back 3. Quite quickly, three of those players became unavailable to us for very different reasons, and the only recruitment we made was Hammersley - good in defence but little in attack.

So we were forced to play Sale academy boys like Reed/Roebuck and move Luke James to full back. When Luke got injured, we had to play some completely green, untested-at-top-level boy called Carpenter.

I don't think I would swap Reed/Roebuck/Carpenter for anyone now and it's giving the feel of the Heywood Road days with the feared, all-Northern "Sale Back 3".

(We never trusted Redpath Jnr, so he moved to Bath, got a regular starting spot and became a Scotland International. Think there are loads more like that....)

So yes, we need to play out best youngsters more and trust in the future of Northern Rugby. Remember the post PSA days...

[DavenportSharky]

I also think the psychological damage to Nye must be significant. He got hammered at Exeter where the scrum was motoring backwards. He needs to get on the pitch again. Part of the problem is although we are winning matches none of them have been put to bed by 70 minutes.

[RinTin]

We need to put some faith in the young guys or what is the point in having them?

I remember, not many years ago, us having a ton of experience in Yarde (ex-England, playing well), McGuigan (Scotland International), Solomona (in England squad) and Ashton (returning to England squad), and thinking we were spoilt for choice in the back 3. Quite quickly, three of those players became unavailable to us for very different reasons, and the only recruitment we made was Hammersley - good in defence but little in attack.

So we were forced to play Sale academy boys like Reed/Roebuck and move Luke James to full back. When Luke got injured, we had to play some completely green, untested-at-top-level boy called Carpenter.

I don't think I would swap Reed/Roebuck/Carpenter for anyone now and it's giving the feel of the Heywood Road days with the feared, all-Northern "Sale Back 3".

(We never trusted Redpath Jnr, so he moved to Bath, got a regular starting spot and became a Scotland International. Think there are loads more like that....)

So yes, we need to play out best youngsters more and trust in the future of Northern Rugby. Remember the post PSA days...

Redpath for me is a real example of how not to manage youth. I know there is more to the story and he did believe his own hype, but he left and was straight into the Bath 23 (mostly a starter) and within 12 months was starting for Scotland.

[poyntonshark]

Redpath largely the exception to the rule though. Not many have left us and gone on to much greater things elsewhere. Ben Foden the only other that immediately springs to mind, and we didn't want him to leave.

[Olyy]

Alex Mitchell and Dan Kelly, I suppose, though both were released at age-grade rather than unused at senior/senior academy

[RinTin]

Odogwu and Nic Dolly.

[SSR]

Joe Jones gone to Scarlets ( probably better place to report it , sorry ).

[RugbyMarvel]

We need a 6/8 asap so we can give a rest to Van Rhyn and Du Preez. Club need to throw money at a viable option asap.

[dinogyro]

It's possible there is no more money. Attendances are down on last year and the last home game was dire to watch.

[Bronzbronx]

I'm convinced the exit of Jones means an announcement of incoming prop is iminent

[stevene]

This is tough as certainly tighthead is a need with Schonert carrying / managing an injury. Harper is still very raw and at the moment there is a big gap between 1st and 2nd choice tighthead. Opoku Fordjour looks quite the talent but can play loosehead so interesting to see where Sale give him opportunities. He certainly needs some game time this season.

In respect of losing Tom C (and Tom Ellis) I'd rather go with what we've got. Jean Luc is back soon, I'd like to see Woodman given some reps at 7 at some point (quite the talent, Curry's at 18 rep-esque) and I'd focus on Dugdale spelling Van Rhyn at 6. I'd also like to see Bamber given more opportunities in the second row with Birch focused on being available to cover 6 as well as second row.

The problem I have with us signing two more players is financial prudence with what has gone in the league over the past couple of years. Saying we have to sign a back row and tighthead is (apologies) a bit tone deaf to all of that. I can see why we are looking around but suspect the amount we have to spend is (and should be) limited. Releasing Joe Jones opens up some salary and I'd rather just focus on some genuine competition for Harper to push him at 3 / not leave us too exposed in that area.

[Flumpty]

For a wild card



has just been re-signed on short term (now short is that ?) contract at Montpelier for post World Cup injury cover.

[PappjeShark]

I imagine Axe is focusing on the league and we’ll see rotation in Europe, as much as many may decry it. The simple fact is we don’t have the squad depth, even with everyone fit, to mount a sustained challenge on both fronts given who we’ve drawn. Kevin Sinfield has a good story about the coach who told him something which meant you must avoid stretching yourself too thin and focus on one front not competing on two.

He said they’re looking for next 6 weeks or so if needed so a signing wouldn’t be a surprise, JLdP should be back soon though too. Axe specifically said it’d be unfair to throw academy lads in cold. The difference with the Curry breakthrough season was we were rubbish that year with nothing like our current squad so it was needs must. (As for Redpath, who knows how much £££ Bath threw at him, the unfortunate fact was we weren’t a good enough, or rich enough, team to carry him finding his way back from injury and he was much less effective than the James brothers when he jumped ship.)

We’ve also got Raffi, Manu, Luke J and Veainu back soon so the backs are getting restocked too.

[Yareet]

I'm convinced the exit of Jones means an announcement of incoming prop is iminent

I kind of think it’s the other way. We thought we had cover but Jones leaving means we’re now in the market for a 3.

[RinTin]

I know Axe seems to have confirmed he won’t be bringing any back rows in which I can understand, but Matt Kvesic just flashed across my mind. Currently running around at Coventry and one hell of an asset imo. Could surely get him on board for 2-3 months and compensate Coventry. I think he would jump at the opportunity and go hell for leather.

[Bucks1861]

I know this is about Gus, who’s a hooker; but I thought it was a great read.

https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/guys-lau ... t-the-top/

[RinTin]

Rugbypass have featured us and our players a lot recently. Good to see.

Really good read.

[Bronzbronx]

Axe media session

We wont be looking for temporary replacements, doesn't make financial sense and would block young lads from game time.

Also Kieran Crichards report
https://kierancrichard.wixsite.com/webs ... 28-11-2023

[Bucks1861]

I admire the club’s holistic approach to Joe Jones release given his (& his family’s) situation. Especially waving a transfer fee from Scarlets.

[dinogyro]

I know some decry Sanderson's mind-based approach, but the family thing they are trying to promote could be a really good long-term move. He said Sale pay less, but the overall player/family package is better.

[SimonG]

I know some decry Sanderson's mind-based approach, but the family thing they are trying to promote could be a really good long-term move. He said Sale pay less, but the overall player/family package is better.

Beginning to sound like The Cheats! Do you give away free houses as well

[dinogyro]

I'm not sure if you are misunderstanding me, or you are making a joke.

I would have thought that Alex, of all people, will be avoiding any sort of shady practice.

[SimonG]

I'm not sure if you are misunderstanding me, or you are making a joke.

I would have thought that Alex, of all people, will be avoiding any sort of shady practice.

I thought the smiley would show it was a joke!

[dinogyro]

Sorry, there are so many different ones, I am getting confused by the nuance!

[SimonG]

Sorry, there are so many different ones, I am getting confused by the nuance!

No problem. I appreciate it is sometimes difficult to interpret the tone of a post!