By RinTin
#64689
I appreciate this is obviously nothing to do with Sale, but big talking point from the game (Leicester and Saints forums here are pretty dead).

Saints break through and Freeman scores. A split second before Freeman scores the infamous Karl Dickson decides to blow for what he deems a knock on despite being a good 15m away from the incident. Subsequent replays showed no knock on, with that try being critical for Saints.

Anyone else see this? Dickson for me is just not up to it. Too whistle happy when he should have let the score happen, then use the TMO to clarify.

Side Note - Big performance from Leicester as well it has to be said with all their big lads back. I can see them charging up the table from here.
By Olyy
#64690
Yeah, it was a shocking call

Considering it was so close to the line I don't get why he didn't just let them go over the line and then have the TMO check in the background - I get that large parts of the rugby fanbase are on an anti-TMO kick at the moment but it's what they're there for

I've never been a big fan of KD's refereeing tbh - I've always thought he's been fast tracked because they want to promote an ex-player-to-pro-referee pathway,
The RFU dropping JP Doyle for him in 2019 was unforgivable
RinTin liked this
By SimonG
#64691
Although I do recall the stick JP Doyle was getting at the time from the keyboard warriors!
MikeGC liked this
By RinTin
#64692
SimonG wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:15 pm
Although I do recall the stick JP Doyle was getting at the time from the keyboard warriors!
Grass is always greener to some.
By SimonG
#64693
RinTin wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:37 pm
SimonG wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:15 pm
Although I do recall the stick JP Doyle was getting at the time from the keyboard warriors!
Grass is always greener to some.
Especially four year old grass!

For me I recall thinking Doyle wasn't performing as well as he had done at the time he was made redundant and I know I wasn't alone.

Dickson was already on the Pro referees list at the time so he didn't replace Doyle he was just one of many refs who kept their jobs when Doyle lost his.
User avatar
By Flumpty
#64694
Currently reading Wayne Barnes's book - lots of insights there as to how referees "tick" and the edicts that they have to follow.

The biggest ines that i've picked up on so far are that all refs are rugby fans, doing the nest job that they can and that they all make mistakes.

I haven't seen the Tigers vs Saints game, so can't comment to KD's peformance, but c'est la vie. Against the Budgies on Friday, we'd got the ball and were well on our way to scoring, but the ref had blown his whistle to take us back for a scrum with our put in - for the sake of a another second of advantage time, we'd have had another 7 points on the board.
By Olyy
#64695
SimonG wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:38 pm

Dickson was already on the Pro referees list at the time so he didn't replace Doyle he was just one of many refs who kept their jobs when Doyle lost his.
2019 RWC is what I'm referencing - Dickson took JP Doyle's spot in the RFU contingent and went to the World Cup despite only being a premiership referee for just over a year at the time it was announced
By RinTin
#64696
Flumpty wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:45 pm
Currently reading Wayne Barnes's book - lots of insights there as to how referees "tick" and the edicts that they have to follow.

The biggest ines that i've picked up on so far are that all refs are rugby fans, doing the nest job that they can and that they all make mistakes.

I haven't seen the Tigers vs Saints game, so can't comment to KD's peformance, but c'est la vie. Against the Budgies on Friday, we'd got the ball and were well on our way to scoring, but the ref had blown his whistle to take us back for a scrum with our put in - for the sake of a another second of advantage time, we'd have had another 7 points on the board.
See if you can find a clip of this. Freeman was around 1.5 metres from the line about to flop over when the whistle blew over something completely speculative.

I agree it is c'est la vie, but in this situation it was terrible call and actually changed the game significantly as it became Tigers put in and they kept the lead. I know referees do what they can and everyone's human so mistakes are made, but this was bad.
By FarnhamShark
#64700
The whole match is available on Premiership Rugby, so do you have an indication of the time of the incident, please?
User avatar
By Flumpty
#64702
RinTin wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:12 pm
Flumpty wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:45 pm
Currently reading Wayne Barnes's book - lots of insights there as to how referees "tick" and the edicts that they have to follow.

The biggest ines that i've picked up on so far are that all refs are rugby fans, doing the nest job that they can and that they all make mistakes.

I haven't seen the Tigers vs Saints game, so can't comment to KD's peformance, but c'est la vie. Against the Budgies on Friday, we'd got the ball and were well on our way to scoring, but the ref had blown his whistle to take us back for a scrum with our put in - for the sake of a another second of advantage time, we'd have had another 7 points on the board.
See if you can find a clip of this. Freeman was around 1.5 metres from the line about to flop over when the whistle blew over something completely speculative.

I agree it is c'est la vie, but in this situation it was terrible call and actually changed the game significantly as it became Tigers put in and they kept the lead. I know referees do what they can and everyone's human so mistakes are made, but this was bad.
I've just found the clip.
Yep, there's every possibility that he got it wrong, but he's called it as he saw it and now it's time to carry on with the game.
User avatar
By Flumpty
#64703
FarnhamShark wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:36 pm
The whole match is available on Premiership Rugby, so do you have an indication of the time of the incident, please?
61min, 30 secs
By Basilbullneck
#64706
I’m not a big fan of KD, but I applaud his decision - he saw a knock on, and IMHO much better to have a decision than to rely on TMO to make the decision for him. Keep momentum in the game and as much decision-making in the hands of the red as possible.
Flumpty, Yonah liked this
User avatar
By Yareet
#64714
Basilbullneck wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:55 pm
I’m not a big fan of KD, but I applaud his decision - he saw a knock on, and IMHO much better to have a decision than to rely on TMO to make the decision for him. Keep momentum in the game and as much decision-making in the hands of the red as possible.
But it isn’t an either or. Other refs would ask the TMO to check something whilst play continues. That for me is the best of both worlds.
Olyy, RinTin liked this
By ageinghoody
#64716
Basilbullneck wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:55 pm
I’m not a big fan of KD, but I applaud his decision - he saw a knock on, and IMHO much better to have a decision than to rely on TMO to make the decision for him. Keep momentum in the game and as much decision-making in the hands of the red as possible.
I'm not a big fan of excessive use of the TMO but thought this was an exemplary case of where it was justified. I thoughton the night that play should have been allowed to continue and checked after the "try" was scored.

However, I'll confess that "on the night" doesn't mean "at the time"!

Only after TV replayed it did I realise that the clear knock-on I was convinced I'd seen was no such thing.
By RinTin
#64724
See a lot of merit in the comments made on both sides of this. For me though this is where the TMO behind the scenes is key, reviewing play so the referee doesn't need to stop the game.

Had KD not blown when Freeman was in the act of scoring then it would be different, i.e. the ramifications of the decision are much less significant. Given what was happening I believe this is the perfect scenario to allow play to continue and review after.

I'm still surprised the scrum wasn't then awarded to Saints given the error was highlighted.
Olyy liked this
By SimonG
#64728
Olyy wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:31 pm
SimonG wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:38 pm

Dickson was already on the Pro referees list at the time so he didn't replace Doyle he was just one of many refs who kept their jobs when Doyle lost his.
2019 RWC is what I'm referencing - Dickson took JP Doyle's spot in the RFU contingent and went to the World Cup despite only being a premiership referee for just over a year at the time it was announced
Ah got you. But World Rugby as well as the RFU considered him good enough at the time.
Never ending word association thread

Fool https://collectionapi.metmuseum.org/api/coll[…]

Been looking forward to this one. Love the lin[…]

Curtis isn’t young. He’s well regard[…]

Sarries game

Think we had: 7 starting, 2 bench Edit: 3 bench, […]