By AndaleManito
#9488
Yareet wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:39 pm
I seem to remember Dimes saying that for each position he wanted a worldie, a Prem standard player and an academy option.
I found this comment pretty interesting and it made me think about next years squad. I made a table of what I think we've got. I made columns for "Worldie", "Prem Start", "Squad Player", "Academy 1" and "Academy 2"

- Worldie = self explanatory I guess, tier 1 international quality player, or there abouts

- Prem Start = not necessarily international, but you'd be happy starting in a Prem final. Split into A and B as we have a few options here e.g. AJ vs RDP, Harrison vs Oosthuizen.

- Squad player = can do the job and does it well, but you wouldn't want a team full of them. Phillips is the example par excellence.

- Academy 1 and 2 in order of who is further in their development.

Please note Webber and Wilson left out due to this being a reflection of next year's squad:

Image

Image

Interested to hear what people think, welcome all criticism!

Points of contention/discussion -
- Solomona, Yarde, McGuigan worldies or Prem starts? - on paper they're one thing but maybe some will think otherwise.
- I've also put Redpath at 15 as that's where I think he is best and should aim for, we have Rohan and L. James at 12, and Redpath isn't a 13 IMO, so 15 is the place.
- After his performances this year I would consider Postlethwaite a squad player, doesn't look out of place at all to me.
- Is WGJ a worldie? Maybe not yet, maybe soon.
- Ben Curry probably is a worldie.

For me, I think we look light at outside centre and lock. 8 might appear light but really we know JLDP and Ross (and T Curry! :giggle: ) can play there

Whilst hooker looks light I would hope Langdon and Neild move into prem start A and B next year.

I might have got some academy props the wrong way round.
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By chris1850
#9494
Interesting post! It is all subjective of course.

For me, I am not sure McGuigan is world class, and I am not sure Ashton is a world class 15, though he is a world class wing. Solomona is better than Prem standard but world class? Not sure! Similarly Ben and Jonno are better than Prem standard but not world class.

I think you have to rate Oosthuizen as world class, having played 30 odd tests? So, I would shift him, Harrison and Morozov all one to the left in your spreadsheet. Also,think Phillips is a Prem Start B rather than a squad player.
By Thekeg
#9502
Great thread

I think you could argue Oosthuizen is a “worldie” based on the criteria you set

WGJ is a prem player IMO, might develop higher but not yet played internationally

Very much doubt Evans will be here next year

I’d say Cliff is a squad player, just happens to be in good form, bit like Phillips last year

I know mcguigan has played for Scotland but he’s a prem player in standard I think. Scotland lack depth

I think Solomona similar but with more potential

Like James still a squad player but a fast improving one

Redpath is definitely a centre not a 15 at present

Agree we are a centre light, Lozowski would be perfect

I also think we will need a hooker plus either a second row or a 6/8 depending on where JLDP longer term future lies.

Obviously there had been talk of Koch as well who would be a worldie at 3....
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By MikeGC
#9503
In my humble opinion de Klerk and Curry T are the only world class players.
Incidentally, I feel Beaumont should be listed as a premiership quality no 8
By Thekeg
#9506
MikeGC wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:46 pm
In my humble opinion de Klerk and Curry T are the only world class players.
Incidentally, I feel Beaumont should be listed as a premiership quality no 8
I think perhaps international quality is better.

Lood definitely world class though. Best lock at the World Cup IMO
By chris1850
#9510
I think that in the context of SDs comment though, you have to be a little more forgiving with the definition of 'world class players'. Otherwise you would never get 15 under the cap, with all the remaining prem/squad players. Unless you are Saracens of course........ :)
By Olyy
#9513
ageinghoody wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:42 pm
I thought we were expecting WGJ to head back to the Land Of His Fathers. :thinking:
I'd be surprised, to be honest - think we'll extend before his contract runs out.
No money in Wales, and the regions are a mess.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#9521
I agree Lood, Faf, and Tom are our only world-class players. Chris Ashton might just still sneak in. I also agree that Dimes' definition was a loose one. I think Tier 1 International Quality, though a bit more of a mouthful, would be a better description. Under that criteria, I pretty well agree with your assessment but would put Coenie in the Worldie column.

Is there a quality difference between Prem A and Prem B?
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By Yareet
#9539
poyntonshark wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:07 am
I agree Lood, Faf, and Tom are our only world-class players. Chris Ashton might just still sneak in. I also agree that Dimes' definition was a loose one. I think Tier 1 International Quality, though a bit more of a mouthful, would be a better description. Under that criteria, I pretty well agree with your assessment but would put Coenie in the Worldie column.

Is there a quality difference between Prem A and Prem B?
Mea culpa. My original post was using shorthand and I think Dimes' original comment was more along these lines - i.e. Test standard, Prem standard and an Academy option.
By AndaleManito
#9541
chris1850 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:21 pm
Interesting post! It is all subjective of course.

For me, I am not sure McGuigan is world class, and I am not sure Ashton is a world class 15, though he is a world class wing. Solomona is better than Prem standard but world class? Not sure! Similarly Ben and Jonno are better than Prem standard but not world class.

I think you have to rate Oosthuizen as world class, having played 30 odd tests? So, I would shift him, Harrison and Morozov all one to the left in your spreadsheet. Also,think Phillips is a Prem Start B rather than a squad player.
Of course, all subjective, but I would argue he is, or at least can be, a world class 15 given his performance whilst at Toulon, but agree he is also a world class wing. My definition of world class is tier 1 international, not necessarily starting, but wouldn't be amiss in the 23 for say, Scotland. So McGuigan must be in that. I don't mean world class as in "gets into a world XV!" - echo chris1850's comments re: Saracens :giggle:

I think yes Oosthuizen and Solomona are between world class and Prem Start, though on current form maybe Shrek veers more towards Prem Start. Also agree about Ben and Jono but due to no caps thought they belonged more in the Prem Start category. I would agree that if they were both Scottish for example they would almost certainly be in the national team.

I don't think Morozov is yet Prem Start, though if not for his poor discipline this season would probably have got more game time, maybe moving him one column across.

I've heard Phillips referred to numerous times as the ultimate squad player, I really rate him, he's been very very good for us, and one of our most underrated signings, but he wouldn't start for Sarries, Exeter, Northampton, Gloucester, though would probably start for a bottom 6 team.
Thekeg wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:39 pm
Great thread

I think you could argue Oosthuizen is a “worldie” based on the criteria you set

WGJ is a prem player IMO, might develop higher but not yet played internationally

Very much doubt Evans will be here next year

I’d say Cliff is a squad player, just happens to be in good form, bit like Phillips last year

I know mcguigan has played for Scotland but he’s a prem player in standard I think. Scotland lack depth

I think Solomona similar but with more potential

Like James still a squad player but a fast improving one

Redpath is definitely a centre not a 15 at present

Agree we are a centre light, Lozowski would be perfect

I also think we will need a hooker plus either a second row or a 6/8 depending on where JLDP longer term future lies.

Obviously there had been talk of Koch as well who would be a worldie at 3....
Agree about Oosthuizen, but I think he's likely to slow down from here on out, rather than get better (obviously still a very good player, his versatility is also very valuable

Would have hoped Evans would stay another year, if not we desperately need another Lock, but on reflection he's probably going.

Agree on Cliff, probably should be moved one column to the right but on current form he's Prem Start.

For Luke James I think if he came from another club this year, and we didn't know him as an academy grad, I think most would see him as Prem Start. He's looked class, made hardly any mistakes and has covered two positions very well. I think his reputation as a young player almost counts against him, but I suppose he hasn't been challenged to play the full 80 against a great team yet (I don't think?)

I say Redpath at 15 because from what I've seen this season he's not Prem standard 12, doesn't fit our system/looked poor at 13 but looked very sharp at 15 at age grade. The exact opposite of a crash ball at 12. Jury still out though, he's been unlucky with injury and is clearly a great talent, just needs more time imo.

My main takeway from this would be that Lozowski would be absolutely perfect for us.

I think JLDP will return to 6 next season once LDJ and Beau fit again, though for my money he's been one of the best locks in the Prem for the past few round.

Koch would certainly be a worldie 3, though I can't see how we could fit him in if we keep WGJ, a lock or a centre (maybe hooker) would be more of a priority.
MikeGC wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:46 pm
In my humble opinion de Klerk and Curry T are the only world class players.
Incidentally, I feel Beaumont should be listed as a premiership quality no 8
I don't mean world class as in would get into a world XV, just players who are either current internationals or those who wouldn't look out of place for a tier one squad, though probably I've been inconsistent with this selection.

For me, and it seems for Sale, Beaumont is now a lock who can cover 8 (and covers it very well, for sure) but with the back row talent we have now, and the comparative lack of depth at lock, I can't see him playing 8 when DDP, JLDP, and Ross are fit. Though I agree that he plays equally well at lock and 8.

I think our truly "world class" - world XV players would be Faf, T. Curry, LDJ. I reckon DDP will start for SA at 8 in a few years, if not sooner. If DDP was English he'd probably be starting for England at 8 this 6N.
Yareet wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:16 pm
poyntonshark wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:07 am
I agree Lood, Faf, and Tom are our only world-class players. Chris Ashton might just still sneak in. I also agree that Dimes' definition was a loose one. I think Tier 1 International Quality, though a bit more of a mouthful, would be a better description. Under that criteria, I pretty well agree with your assessment but would put Coenie in the Worldie column.

Is there a quality difference between Prem A and Prem B?
No difference between A and B, just that for some positions we have two players who are in that class. Harrison, Oosthuizen (though he could be worldie). AJ and RDP don't think there's much between them, but don't think they're worldie anymore/yet.
User avatar
By MikeGC
#9543
AndaleManito wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:45 pm

For me, and it seems for Sale, Beaumont is now a lock who can cover 8 (and covers it very well, for sure) but with the back row talent we have now, and the comparative lack of depth at lock, I can't see him playing 8 when DDP, JLDP, and Ross are fit. Though I agree that he plays equally well at lock and 8.

.
I hear that he sees himself as an 8 who covers lock.
It’s currently moot, hopefully his knee will get better soon and (barring his upcoming nuptials) he'll get a decent pre-season under his belt.
By Clutch
#9549
Really. That implies he’s lost the plot. He’s been playing lock regularly and has intentionally bulked up as a result. Didn’t he want to play lock as well?
By Thekeg
#9551
Clutch wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:32 pm
Really. That implies he’s lost the plot. He’s been playing lock regularly and has intentionally bulked up as a result. Didn’t he want to play lock as well?
That, his career trajectory over the last 3 years suggests the opposite is true, plus he’s signed new contracts suggesting he’s happy with what’s going on. Plus our recruitment has suggested we view him firmly as a second row
By AndaleManito
#9556
Yeah I always though it would be silly for him to stay at Sale if he wanted to be an 8, given our back row stocks. Of course he certainly has the skill set for a 8, though his height and weight surely more useful in the engine room.
By Elgar
#9562
I prefer Beaumont at 8. I think his footballing ability and athleticism are slightly lost in the row.

I also think he'd have more chance at setting himself apart from other 8s as a potential test player on the basis of those attributes and his line-out than he would against other potential test locks.

However, clearly makes sense for Sale to play him at lock given the other options in the back-row.
By Elgar
#9563
To the table: If "worldie" only means "tier 1 test standard" then doesn't Yarde have to move up there along with Oosthuizen because of how many caps they both have? (fairly sure Yarde has scored a winning try - taken very well - against Australia in living memory)

If "worldie" is that broader category I'd merge the two 'prem start' columns. Plus it doesn't seem right to me to categorise Harrison and AJ lower than Cliff (well as he's played the last 6 weeks or so).

I'd say Redpath is only an academy player at present, not yet at the level of the other players in the 'squad' category.

Morozov, arguably, quite underrated as just a squad player. I think he's shown that given the chance he could do a great job week in week out. Think he's been a stunningly good find by Diamond.
By AndaleManito
#9580
Elgar wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:54 am
To the table: If "worldie" only means "tier 1 test standard" then doesn't Yarde have to move up there along with Oosthuizen because of how many caps they both have? (fairly sure Yarde has scored a winning try - taken very well - against Australia in living memory)

If "worldie" is that broader category I'd merge the two 'prem start' columns. Plus it doesn't seem right to me to categorise Harrison and AJ lower than Cliff (well as he's played the last 6 weeks or so).

I'd say Redpath is only an academy player at present, not yet at the level of the other players in the 'squad' category.

Morozov, arguably, quite underrated as just a squad player. I think he's shown that given the chance he could do a great job week in week out. Think he's been a stunningly good find by Diamond.
I don't think on current form Yarde is a worldie, but Oosthuizen yeah maybe. He's been solid if unspectacular for us, but obviously a quality operator so maybe he shifts to the left.

As I've mentioned above there's no difference between Prem Start A and Prem Start B, so Harrison and AJ not behind cliff.

Regards to Redpath I wasn't sure if he's Squad or Academy, a lot further on in his development and first team appearances than Curtis for example, but yeah maybe still too raw.

Morozov is still a squad player in my opinion, but that's largely due to a lack of game time due to our strength in the front row. Don't think he'd yet start for a top 6 team, though I've no doubt he will keep developing, he's a real talent imo. Hope he gets more game time.

Squad player (by my definition) really isn't a bad thing btw, but I don't think Phillips and Morozov would start for a top 6 team in the way that Beaumont and Harrison would. Just my opinion though. I suppose that means I should probably shift cliff to squad player, but he's been in great form recently!
By Clutch
#9583
If the criteria is would start for a top 6 team I think it needs a tweak. He’s doing well but Cliff wouldn’t be starting, nor AJ, or L James or Hammersley. Assuming we include Sarries, Chiefs, Gloucester, Saints, and a another.

Not a slight on them. All teams have players that wouldn’t necessarily start for other top 4 rivals but work within a particular squad.
By Basilbullneck
#9749
Mail has us down as being favourites to sign Isiekwe and Lozowski, as well as being in the running to sign Koch. In addition it says Wiggy may join us in a coaching role. I recall a recent article where Wiggy said he had another couple of seasons in him while he is also undertaking coaching at a junior club. Maybe he would come in a dual capacity?
If all those come to fruition, then:
(1) where does that leave squad strength in the case of this thread?, and
(2) if we are already spending to the limit, hoe do we create the headroom in the salary budget to accommodate those players? Presumably there would be some losses in the current squad. Who, and what’s the educated guesses as to how much?
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By poyntonshark
#9752
1), Pretty straightforward, they all strengthen the squad. One caveat, of course, would be that it may depend on who if anyone leaves to make room for them.

2). Possibility of WGJ moving on. Bryn Evans wanted to pack it in last year, Mark Wilson won't be here next year. Not sure there is any natural wastage in the backs and plenty of potential coming through the academy. I see no signs of us wishing to change what is going on at Scrum-half so Wiggy as a coach and mentor would be great but as a player only really likely lessen the game time for the likes of Warr.
User avatar
By MikeGC
#9753
Basilbullneck wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:06 pm
Wiggy said he had another couple of seasons in him while he is also undertaking coaching at a junior club.
Not sure I would believe the Mail if it told me the time and date, but that aside.

Wiggy is 36 and is Attack Coach at Ealing Trailfinders (a Championship Club).
IF he were to return to the Sharks, he would limit the game time of the young scrum-halves in the squad, but what a great mentor he could be for those same lads.
By StalyShark
#9755
Koch for John
Isiekwe for Wilson
Lozowski for AJ potentially

Evans will retire with Webber.
Nield will leave too I imagine and possibly Yarde. I think it’s been telling that we haven’t had any “re-signing” news that usually happens in January.
By chris1850
#9756
Happy to consider Saracens players but only on permanent moves and NOT on loan deals. Agree with Poynton that all would strengthen the squad though
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By Olyy
#9757
Would be very happy with any of/all three of those signings
By DavenportSharky
#9758
I’m not sure I’d believe the Daily Mail on most things but on 19 February 2019 their headline was “Have Saracens broken the salary cap rules” and they broke their 3 month investigation into Nigel Wray. I remember texting mates about it and nobody believed it to be true. My impression is that they are pretty sound on rugby union.
It was interesting in Denny Solomona’s recent interview on Sharks tv he expressed his admiration for 2 of our senior wings but didn’t mention the other international wing at the club. Perhaps that other wing may move in the interest of harmony?
You have to wonder who will be the casualties of the South African influx. Some of them are bound to become frustrated at their denial of opportunity particularly if they are as talented as we like to think. I have always wondered why anyone would want to be a squad player who never plays. Yes there is the money but I would sooner be a star somewhere else and be a regular starter for a lesser club. It must be so frustrating to be talented in any field and be denied showing it.
I wonder what the future holds for Josh Beaumont? Last time he had a severe injury it took him a year to gain the fitness and form he had before. Where will he fit in the pecking order if we sign Nick Isiekwe? Will James Phillips move on? Will we be able to keep Matt Postlethwaite?
Redpath is highlighted as a future star and is clearly rated by Eddie Jones. While realising that is little recommendation, if he is that good why can he not force his way into the Sale starting 15? Personally I’ve not seen anything from him that justifies a first team place.
Squad rotation is not something that Dimes is used to and so far he is understandably desperate to achieve top 4 and so tries to select the best available 23 for every match (except the controversial Champions Cup dead rubber :yes:). The rotation is mainly props rotating with the bench.
We always seem to be the last team to reveal our signings for the year. Many of the Saracens players seem committed to staying put but the loan deal may well be a popular choice. I’m not sure how beneficial that is to a club. It takes a player 12 months to settle in the team, they are unlikely to move house and a temp secretary is never as good as a permanent one because they are not as committed to the cause.
These are the sort of questions that I manage to fall asleep at night thinking about. I used to try and think of a left footed bald bearded Scottish 15 or something similar but hardly ever got past the front row.
I used to spend an hour listening to the Sharktank podcast but I think it is too long and too repetitive. It has the same problem as this board. Rob Du Preez hits the post with the last kick of the game and we are terrible, looking at relegation, Dimes should be sacked etc etc. If the ball had hit the post and gone over we are brilliant, top 4, Dimes for a knighthood etc. I’m probably as guilty of that as anyone else. Certainly my mood for the weekend depends on what happens to Sale Sharks.
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By AndaleManito
#9759
My predictions/hopes for transfers:

Evans out
- could play another year at least but think he will move into the wine business after getting his qualifications recently
- leaves us a lock short
- likelihood: 90% sure

likely replacement: Isikwe

Webber out
- we already know he's retired, though he also could play on at a high level.
- hooker short
- likelihood: obviously 100%

Likely replacement(s): Langdon will step up, Dolly and Ashman will come back and get game time. I reckon that probably one of the two will move on elsewhere, most likley Ashman to a Scottish team.

Neild out
- really should be moving on now, at his best he's very good but injuries/form/positional switch have prevent him from getting back to this.
- imo not a hooker
- leaves us a 6 down, but we have Curry, Ross and JLDP + potentially Isikwe.
- likelihood: 80% sure

likely replacement: none

Others who may go:

AJ (don't think he will go, Wilkinson and Curtis not ready yet, though if we get Lozowski this could change, though I think Lozowski is a 13 really)
Yarde - no idea, just coming into form and don't think many other clubs would take him. Might be offered a reduced wage. Roebuck coming through but probably needs another season. When Reed is fit again he will certainly be a squad player.
Phillips (unlikley, as we already probably losing a lock in Evans)

other:

Koch for WGJ, would make sense if WGJ is going, but otherwise as good as Koch is he would be surplus, or at least there are other positions in need of more depth (Lock, Centre, Hooker, Flyhalf, Scrum Half, Full Back). Prop, along with 6 and 8 and wing are our best stocked positions.

In terms of the cap:

Evans + Webber + Neild = Isikwe + Lozowski? Not sure if this adds ups, suspect one of Yarde, AJ or Phillips will have to go too, unless we can get the two sarries on the cheap.

Some of the junior boys will move on to senior contracts too, which will take up cap space.

I really hope we get Lozowski and Isikwe - both quality operators who cover multiple positions and are as good as you can get without (yet) being regular starting internationals.
By Olyy
#9760
I've heard that Sarries players are having to take pretty decent paycuts - not necessarily because they're all overpaid there but because there's a lot of them on the market and most clubs weren't necessarily banking on recruiting extra top level players so the amount of free cap space knocking about isn't as much as it could be.
DavenportSharky wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:07 am
I’m not sure I’d believe the Daily Mail on most things but on 19 February 2019 their headline was “Have Saracens broken the salary cap rules” and they broke their 3 month investigation into Nigel Wray. I remember texting mates about it and nobody believed it to be true. My impression is that they are pretty sound on rugby union.
To be fair to them Daily Mail is probably the best rugby reporting in the country.
Rest of the paper is chip wrapper at best, but their rugby stories are always pretty good and usually spot on (think they have a lot of sources in a lot of places - especially within the England set up).
By Elgar
#9765
Koch, Isiekwe, Lozowski in - Webber, Evans, AJ and Wilson off sounds workable within the cap.
Koch is the only one I’d put money on signing for us. But I think we should throw really decent money at Isiekwe – I’d be content to have to let both Phillips and Evans go to land him on a long term deal.
Lozowski would be (very) nice to have. But think we are reasonably well covered in midfield (presuming AJ stays if we miss out on Lozowski) and have a lot of promise coming through in Williams and Doherty, Curtis and Wilkinson; as well as Redpath, allegedly.

WGJ shouldn’t need to leave to get Wales caps. But perhaps Joe Jones would need to move on if we signed another high end tighthead.
Not sure why we would accelerate Yarde’s exit. Imagine we could leverage his salary down on the next renewal if he’s on a crazy rate.

Could probably also accommodate Wiggy but only at the expense of Cliff. Which, even though ruthless, I’d say would be good for us for a year. Beyond then, at least one of Warr or Quirke but ideally both should be ahead of either of them in the pecking order.
Ben Spencer is one that I’d be more than happy with on a one year deal. To provide premium cover for FDK while Warr and Quirke continue to develop. But with the others mentioned I’d want permanent deals.

I’ve said on a different thread that I can actually see Neild staying put to cover flanker. A scenario where all of the DuP and Curry twins are on international duty along with LDJ can’t be ruled out. Which would leave us a bit thin in the loose forwards, even assuming no injuries. And whereas we all know what he can do, because of how long he’s been out of the shop window, I’m not sure who would sign him.
By stevene
#9769
DavenportSharky wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:07 am

It was interesting in Denny Solomona’s recent interview on Sharks tv he expressed his admiration for 2 of our senior wings but didn’t mention the other international wing at the club. Perhaps that other wing may move in the interest of harmony?
havent seen the interview but assume you are referring to ashton?

if so I suspect thats because they both want to play on one side and are, in effect, competing for one spot. in addition I suspect ashy is on a bit more of a wedge than denny. denny just needs to concentrate on staying fit as hes the best winger at the club for me.

cant see him having any issues with yarde as they were both in rome recently with their other halves. he and the horse also seem to get along.
By Olyy
#9773
AndaleManito wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:13 pm
Haven't seen the video either but assumed he was talking about Yarde too!
Aye, I've just watched the clip and it's Byron and Ashton he name drops
By Basilbullneck
#9781
In the back three, subject to finances I think we can accommodate all of Yarde, Denny, Ashton and McGuigan. We won’t have Hammersley and I think Sshton at this level is a very good fullback. I’m aware of Luke James and the youngsters, but Denny and Ashton are injury prone.
Is Yarde out of contract at the end of the season?
By StalyShark
#9782
Basilbullneck wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:27 pm
In the back three, subject to finances I think we can accommodate all of Yarde, Denny, Ashton and McGuigan. We won’t have Hammersley and I think Sshton at this level is a very good fullback. I’m aware of Luke James and the youngsters, but Denny and Ashton are injury prone.
Is Yarde out of contract at the end of the season?
Hammersley is here on a permanent contract not a loan.
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By Van Cannonball
#9783
Webber retiring does make things interesting, as I think we’ll go with cover from the current squad and have spare cash for another position.

With Bryn being similar but previously known, I’d focus on Lozowski as we’re a little short in the playmaking centre skill set outside of Sam James given Redpath hasn’t come through. Not sure of Curtis is still viewed as a centre option too though.

In terms of re-signings, I think part of that is the vast majority are on long term contracts. Doubt there’s many who are actually up this year. For new signings we do always seem to be late with announcements, but think it will be fairly quiet t for us.
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