By Surbiton_Shark
#12995
Saw this on Facebook yesterday posted by Sale Harriers

Would be absolutely great if it happened! - close to public transport and brings the team back to Sale.

'It has come to our attention that the major shareholder in Sale Sharks, Simon Orange, who is an entrepreneur and businessman, is looking to build a new stadium at Crossford Bridge as a permanent home for the rugby team.
The land is owned by Trafford Council and is currently leased by the Crossford Bridge Management Association which comprises, Sale Harriers, Sale United and Old Alts. There will begin a consultation asking for input commencing on the 22nd of June until July the 13th. Please watch out for details of this if you care about the future of the club on this site.
Sale Harriers were formed over 100 years ago and built the track at Crossford Bridge in 1951. We have a long history at this address which could soon end if these proposals go ahead.
The consultation period has been timed so that many individuals who may have voiced strong opinions, such as teachers, parents etc, have other things on their minds such as a deadly pandemic sweeping the country.
We will have a huge fight on our hands if we want to prevent losing our place on this historic site and so I am imploring you to do whatever you can to prevent this development from happening. Those who live close will receive a letter in the next few days. Please do not ignore this letter. Let them know your feelings. A press statement will be made and leaflets will be distributed in due course. Thank you for your help.
Club Secretary'
By wrinklieshark
#12998
Email just received....



Sale Sharks Our plans to return to Sale
#BringSaleSharksHome



As part of the Sharks Family, we want to share our vision for a historic return to our hometown of Sale, bringing us back to our roots and inspiring a new generation of supporters.

Sale Sharks

Today we can reveal that a new state-of-the-art stadium is being proposed as part of the early stage vision for Crossford Bridge Community Sports Village in Sale. In line with these plans we have a vision to bring our elite men's and women’s teams, along with the Sharks Community Trust, back to the borough where it all began.

These exciting plans give us the opportunity to lay down roots and establish an accessible, long-term home that we can be proud of, with excellent transport links and a matchday experience like no other.

Soon, we will be asking you to show your support and have your say by providing feedback on the proposals - this is your opportunity to help shape our club's future.

Sale Sharks

For now, you can:

• Learn more about the early vision for Crossford Bridge Community
Sports Village and stay up-to-date with the proposals at:
www.crossfordbridge.co.uk

• Keep an eye on our social media channels for the latest updates

There are exciting times ahead, so stay tuned...


#BringSaleSharksHome
User avatar
By MikeGC
#13000
Looking on a map, it’s not a huge site.
In an ideal world it would contain the stadium and ample parking.
Perhaps some computer whizz could superimpose a picture of the AJB stadium on the footprint of the Crossford Bridge site.
Doesn’t look like access would be significantly improved
User avatar
By iBozz
#13003
MikeGC wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:50 am
Doesn’t look like access would be significantly improved

Dane Road Metro Station is alongside.
By Olyy
#13004
As long as we stick with a real pitch and don't go for a plastic one (as many community stadiums do) then I'm happy!
By DavenportSharky
#13006
That is a pretty negative response from the Club Secretary at Sale Harriers. The impression is that there would be enhanced facilities for all but clearly they don’t see it that way. I would not want an athletics track round an artificial pitch. Wonder what Orange et al gleaned from their trip to Paris? Roof over? Would this affect Heywood Road? Is a park and ride part of this plan? Some part of this must be left “wild” for dog walking and running presumably? Anyway lots of positives from this. No sign of current owners walking. Salford council must be a bit worried about a potential white elephant and a smelly one at that.
Will there be an investment opportunity as at the Ricoh?
Interesting times. Something positive to think about instead of that bl@@dy virus and knocking down statues.
By AonM
#13007
I think it sounds like a very good plan with good transport e.g tram, motorway. There are also a good number of pubs within 'walking' distance.
Selfishly its within walking distance of me ! :joy:

But can see a lot of locals objecting to the proposal.
By Olyy
#13008
MikeGC wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:50 am
Looking on a map, it’s not a huge site.
In an ideal world it would contain the stadium and ample parking.
Perhaps some computer whizz could superimpose a picture of the AJB stadium on the footprint of the Crossford Bridge site.
Doesn’t look like access would be significantly improved
Quick bodge using google maps:
Image
Yonah liked this
By FarnhamShark
#13010
In addition to the Dane Road metro, there's a 263 bus stop on the A56. There have been rumours recently about revamping the world-wide rugby season, with the Prem not starting until December. Seems odd, but it would then mean far more of a conflict between us and Salford City Reds, so perhaps that has brought the idea forward.
By FarnhamShark
#13013
Thanks, Olly, for the super-imposition. I suspect we'll need car parking space off-site, if it's not going to take over all the rest of the space. There seems to be spare land close by, but presumably it's pretty damp.
By Lord Elpus
#13016
It seems to me a big expense which won't raise attendance significantly. Yes I know they will be able to retain matchday profits on f&b unlike at the AJB but for crowds of about 6.5k every fortnight for 30 odd weeks or so won't repay the capital. I asume the loan will be at negative interest.

Is the M60 junction for the proposed site the same one used for MU games?
By HR1861
#13018
I think this is the most exciting news for years re the Sharks.At last, we may have our own stadium that will tick all the boxes.

As a Sale resident and having been a season ticket holder at Heywood Rd and Edgeley Park, I’m one of the many whose support has lapsed since the move to the AJ Bell. This will get me back.

There’ll be a lot of work to do to pacify Sale Harriers and Sale United, let alone the local residents before it can move forward, so let’s get behind Simon Orange and the board in supporting this.
AonM, Taplow 1861 liked this
By Blind540
#13020
I like the idea of this however there are a few things that really need to be ironed out.
  • Will Sale Utd (and Alt) remain at Crossford Bridge. I think they will agree if the existing football pitches being made into 4G pitch(es). They are currently rather boggy pitches however they are used by a lot of junior football teams.
      The issue will more be with the Harriers. Would there be any other site that could be converted for the athletics site (just putting it out there as a suggestion - Worthington Park or at a push Ashton Park). I think we would have to contribute to this as part of a compensation package.
        I have also seen some cricket teams play at Crossford Bridge, usually mid week, but they could maybe use other sites, such as Trafford MV
      If we were to do anything like this to keep the piece with the existing users, then we have a real problem with parking. Maybe we could do a park and ride.
      By Van Cannonball
      #13023
      Interesting that the council seem to be on board, at this early stage anyway. I guess we wouldn’t have had the announcement if there hadn’t already been a lot of discussions behind the scenes.

      I remember way back when the first discussions of a move away from Heywood road were happening that I thought this proposed area would be perfect, but it was a non-starter with the council.

      Really hope it can happen but unless there’s space on the site for parking as well as the stadium I think it’s difficult, as I’m struggling to think of local places to park.

      I suppose park and ride along the metro would work well given how close it is to Dane road station.
      User avatar
      By ShawSharkRedemption
      #13028
      From a personal/selfish point of view I have some comments.
      Living in Rochdale, I have found that the AJBell is OK. Travel to/from is not a problem by car parking near the Arndale and walking in via the tow path ( 8 mins to my seat ) is cheap and
      easy. The stadium is good and the ground is usually in great condition. The biggest downside is the atmosphere and consumables. If those two could be improved somehow,
      I don't think the venue lacks anything.
      The proposed move does not fill me with enthusiasm. The site looks too small for substantial parking. Travelling from Rochdale to Sale would not be convenient via Tram especially return on Friday night games ( plus extra expense if more than just a single ).
      I have no affinity to Sale as a place and suspect that attendance would go down, not up, simply due the to more peripheral location away from Manchester.
      The other issue is the location constrained by two substantial waterways. Flooding must be a risk ( I lived in Northenden in the 70s and saw flooding then ). I think a synthetic or semi synthetic surface must be a consideration just to be practical and generate more
      income from alternative uses.
      I also think that if development is to go ahead then brown field sites in a more central location should be considered or a takeover of an existing sporting venue.
      Sounds very pessimistic, sorry.
      By IOL Shark
      #13030
      I’ve done a overlay to scale of AJ (stadium & concourses + hard paved parking area + Astros) onto Crossford and it comfortably fits, so we definitely wouldn’t lose any footprint compared to what we currently have. I’d imagine a capacity similar to what we have now - we really don’t need more even if the attendance rises. For exceptional games I’d imagine we’d look at using OT, Emirates or the Reebok.
      I’m not very techy with this platform, so if anyone can guide me I’ll post the picture.
      In terms of transport, I think the majority of car provision will be based on park & ride - Sale Water Park and Brooklands metro come to mind. I also think the Trafford Centre will still be utilised as it’s only 10 mins drive from junction 9 to the proposed ground.
      Dane Road metro is on the doorstep, Brooklands and Sale WP walkable and plenty of buses along the A56. I can also see the M60 slip road being looked at to put in an access to the ground direct from the motorway.
      The biggest challenge to me is for the planners and designers is to meet the promise made to the grassroots football and Sale Harriers. The site is extremely popular and important to the local community and, as a minimum, they shouldn’t and mustn’t lose anything from the development. One option could be to utilise what we have at Carrington as part of the overall provision, allowing the football to use the pitches there and possibly building a running track and associated athletics facilities. There’s a lot of land there that could be used and I believe we’ve also now taken on some of Man City’s facilities there.
      Overall the site and the opportunity is ideal. The key, as with any major infrastructure project, is to put the focus on the planning and design process and do this in collaboration with the local community and businesses, as well as with developers and associated supply chain who have experience in building sports stadium and facilities.
      By East Stand Shark
      #13037
      Have to agree with Shawshank, I come with a carload of fans from Chester and access to the AJBell is relatively easy and straightforward. Parking is easily available and relatively affordable. We have very little trouble getting to and from the stadium.

      The current ground is about the right size capacity wise and the pitch is one of the best in the Premiership.
      I know there are certain revenue issues the club are struggling with but I am not convinced that building another stadium is the answer. It raises as many issues as it solves.

      Has anybody been to the dreaded Allianz with its temporary seating set back from the playing surface to accommodate the athletics running track and its awful plastic pitch. That might be the future with this venture. Be careful for what you wish for.
      ale shark, Lord Elpus liked this
      By SaleFC
      #13038
      IOL Shark wrote:
      Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:15 am

      The site is extremely popular and important to the local community and, as a minimum, they shouldn’t and mustn’t lose anything from the development. One option could be to utilise what we have at Carrington as part of the overall provision, allowing the football to use the pitches there and possibly building a running track and associated athletics facilities. There’s a lot of land there that could be used and I believe we’ve also now taken on some of Man City’s facilities there.
      Just a quick point, people seem to be offering up Sale FC's property for some reason. Some Sale United football people suggest they should get Heywood Road as compensation for example. The Carrington site and Heywood Road both belong to Sale FC Rugby which is owned by its members. So, although this new development is exciting for Sale as a town and rugby in the North West, it has not a lot to do with Sale FC.
      Lord Elpus, iBozz liked this
      By IOL Shark
      #13039
      I get what you’re saying SaleFC and I’m not suggesting the football and athletics should be given anything there. But Sale and Sharks go hand in hand with many ventures and there’s no reason agreement can’t be reached where Sharks, Sale and the local grassroots sport can’t collaborate on a give and take basis. For example, grassroots could utilise Carrington with Sale blessing, allowing the new development to be built by Sharks, and then facilities shared with Sale. To get maximum use, efficiency and income from modern sports ventures often needs collaboration and sharing of space and facilities.
      By SaleFC
      #13045
      Ok
      Sale Sharks rented Carrington from us and have moved to the Man City site. The Carrington site is where our M&J's train on Sundays and our 1st team, colts and contact age groups during the week. Heywood Road is our match day pitch. While Sharks were on site at Carrington, we had an agreement in the contract to access three of the pitches which limited what we could do with M&J's. We were also restricted in what we could do in the main building. Now they're leaving we're looking to utilise the building for our members to develop and grow.
      Sale Sharks and Sale FC Rugby are different clubs. We have links- Name, Common origin etc, but, we are a members club owned by the members. Moving football and Athletics to our facility would be the equivalent of moving them to Ashton on Mersey Rugby or Bowdon Rugby clubs.
      Yonah, Lord Elpus, iBozz and 1 others liked this
      By chris1850
      #13047
      East Stand Shark wrote:
      Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:49 am
      Have to agree with Shawshank, I come with a carload of fans from Chester and access to the AJBell is relatively easy and straightforward. Parking is easily available and relatively affordable. We have very little trouble getting to and from the stadium.

      The current ground is about the right size capacity wise and the pitch is one of the best in the Premiership.
      I know there are certain revenue issues the club are struggling with but I am not convinced that building another stadium is the answer. It raises as many issues as it solves.

      Has anybody been to the dreaded Allianz with its temporary seating set back from the playing surface to accommodate the athletics running track and its awful plastic pitch. That might be the future with this venture. Be careful for what you wish for.
      Totally agree. The Allianz Arena is absolutely dreadful. it is a complete botch.
      By StalyShark
      #13066
      I know Dimes has been pretty scathing about plastic pitches in the past so I’d be very surprised if he goes along with if that’s what’s proposed.
      Olyy liked this
      User avatar
      By Yareet
      #13077
      Van Cannonball wrote:
      Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:31 am
      Interesting choice of author...certainly writes in a bit of a sensationalist/tabloid manner
      I did realise the author when I posted but it was the first UK-based, non-paywalled article when I searched.
      By H's D
      #13101
      I believe the Altringham Metro line normally has a tram every six minutes and that the trams carry 206 passengers. During peak periods they run as doubles , so the maximum capacity would appear to be o the order of 4000 passengers per hour. Obviously that is a signficant benefit but with Friday evenings likely to be the favoured playing time there will be a lot of commuters sharing that line's use.
      I would agree that the TC shuttle would seem likely to be retained for many drivers, The site has fairly limited parking currently. Creating significantly more parking would make shared use of the site all the more difficult. Those playing fields appear to have a lot of current users on multiple different adult, junior and mini pitches, Sale Harriers don't exactly seem enamoured either...........https://sports-facilities.co.uk/sites/view/1011521
      Looking very locally, the current access to the Playing fields for vehicles is off Danefield Road itself, which has a pretty narrow access. I suspect they will be looking at access directly off the A56 which is a dual carriageway complicatiing matters somewhat.
      Danefield Road is the home of Marlin Concrete flooring a very successfull business, possibly limiting any expansion to the South using the old gasometer site for parking..

      IMHO this will need very accomplished, tactful handling and negotiation to succeed. That normally takes time...the 3 week initial consultation period does not bode well. We will have to wait and see....
      By ageinghoody
      #13102
      This is nothing more than a gut feeling, but I suspect that anything which would require the permanent relocation of Sale Harriers is pretty much a non-starter.
      By SCRUM30
      #13107
      Hi I’ve no idea how big/many athletes are at the harriers? However does economics not come into the equation? How much do the harriers put into the local economy compared to potentially 8-10000 sale fans ?
      By HR1861
      #13108
      The proposed site is huge.
      Even with a new stadium, I’m sure that Sale Harriers, Sale Utd and Old Alts could all be accommodated with updated facilities, and there’d still be room for plenty of additional parking and leaving some of the greenery.
      A new access road would indeed be required off the A56, but as well as that junction, the one before at Sale water park (for those coming from Stockport) could be utilised. There is already a large park and ride car park there for tram users (a different line to Dane Road) that could be used for shuttle buses.
      The site is also only about a pleasant 15 minutes walk from Sale Town Centre with all its pubs, bars and restaurants, along the canal.
      After their initial concerns and objections, the existing tenants have now realised they should listen to the proposals. The track at Sale Harriers is in need of a serious upgrade so they’d be foolish not to listen, and there’s some sense now from Sale United who understand they could end up with vastly improved facilities.
      Whilst I know we must be realistic, I’m sure Simon Orange would appreciate a few more positive comments and “can do” attitude on this board in support.
      At least on the club Facebook page there’s over 200 positive posts that may encourage him a little more.
      Let’s get behind this fantastic proposal!!
      By ageinghoody
      #13128
      Oh don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted to see it happen, but if it's going to happen then I believe we'll need to show respect for the current occupiers, especially the Harriers with their century and a bit of, significantly, continuous residence in Sale.

      How many members they have at present I don't know, but it was over a thousand when they celebrated their centenary in 2010, twenty of them full internationals! Given the number of age-groups, training sessions etc. in more "normal" times, there has to be a significant number of members (and in many cases their parents) turning up numerous times a week, so I'm not overly confident that the economic impact of our fifteen to twenty days a year will weigh very heavily, IF it has to one or the other.

      I really hope it won't come to that, but those existing users must be included and listened to as partners, rather than regarded as a problem to be overcome, as the tone of some comments suggests.

      We've even managed to raise hackles at Sale FC !
      User avatar
      By poyntonshark
      #13134
      ageinghoody wrote:
      Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:56 pm
      We've even managed to raise hackles at Sale FC !
      Not sure it was us that raised hackles, but those suggesting that any deal could include usage of Sale FC facilities, which, of course, it can't. But not a wholly unreasonable assumption for those not familiar with our shared and parted history.

      I share your concerns over the proposed move. I would rather we stayed put than forced existing users of the site to unwillingly move elsewhere. Obviously makes no material difference to me where we play, but would be nice to be back in Sale.
      By SaleFC
      #13162
      poyntonshark wrote:
      Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:22 am
      ageinghoody wrote:
      Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:56 pm
      We've even managed to raise hackles at Sale FC !
      Not sure it was us that raised hackles, but those suggesting that any deal could include usage of Sale FC facilities, which, of course, it can't. But not a wholly unreasonable assumption for those not familiar with our shared and parted history.
      Not this forum no, there is a very concerted effort by one or two local people near Dane Road who have thrown as much mud as they can in the hope that some sticks. They've brought up safeguarding issues, the Stockport saga, drunken rugby fans fighting in the streets (I kid you not) and more than one suggestion that why don't sharks give up Heywood Road and let the football club have it (not suggested by the football club I hasten to add). In one series of posts, they site that Sharks want is both an area of outstanding natural beauty and a hazard due to the methane levels and flooding.
      This whole subject is quite emotive for some and is likely to get worse before it gets better. The posts about Sale United FC (the football club) claim in a series of posts to have 300 children every weekend, then 500 then 800 and at one point 1000's. The petition to stop the project is gathering force, even though no one really has any idea what shape this whole stadium/facility/community programme will be. The main protagonist seems to be quite vocal and although ostensibly an employment lawyer, they also seem to have a lot of time on their hands!
      The Angel Shark liked this
      By ale shark
      #13170
      Isn’t this just an elaborate stalking horse exercise to get Salford to sell up? Peel have previously indicated they are willing to sell. If there’s a real threat that they may lose their main anchor tenant (based on crowd sizes) then they’d be daft not to reconsider.

      Building a new stadium is nuts, particularly if, dare I say it, it’s less accessible than the current one.
      MikeGC liked this
      By Lord Elpus
      #13177
      ale shark wrote:Isn’t this just an elaborate stalking horse exercise to get Salford to sell up? Peel have previously indicated they are willing to sell. If there’s a real threat that they may lose their main anchor tenant (based on crowd sizes) then they’d be daft not to reconsider.

      Building a new stadium is nuts, particularly if, dare I say it, it’s less accessible than the current one.
      Equally buying the AJB would be nuts. I'd say they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
      By Yonah
      #13183
      Latest from Crossford Futures:

      https://crossfordbridge.co.uk/news/joi ... ocal-clubs


      18/06/2020
      Joint statement from local clubs

      Statement from Crossford Futures, Old Altrinchamians FC, Sale Harriers Manchester, Sale Sharks and Sale United FC:
      “We can confirm all parties have now entered into early dialogue around the vision for the potential development of Crossford Bridge and intend to hold preliminary discussions as part of a more detailed consultation which will take place in the coming weeks. Our shared priority is ensuring that all involved, including the clubs, local residents and the wider community benefit from any proposals for the site.
      “We would like to reiterate that no solutions will be put forward in the second phase of consultation in the autumn that do not meet with the approval from all of the parties involved, especially Sale United FC, Sale Harriers Manchester and Old Altrinchamians FC. Local residents and all the children who enjoy the current facilities will then have an opportunity to provide significant feedback as part of that second phase of consultation.”
      By Van Cannonball
      #13186
      Undoubtedly the plan will involve improved facilities for all the current clubs, otherwise there’s no chance of getting them on board, so I guess will depend if any of them want to be obstinate and stick with what they know.

      Presumably getting the clubs onside then makes it harder for the local residents to object at the second stage. I can certainly sympathise with them, but if the main Car access is away from Dane Rd (and as others have said already it would have to be or it’s a non-starter) then I can’t see that it’s so impactful.
      By DaveAitch
      #13192
      "Undoubtedly the plan will involve improved facilities for all the current clubs, otherwise there’s no chance of getting them on board, so I guess will depend if any of them want to be obstinate and stick with what they know."
      .....or possibly sensible?

      In terms of Sale Sharks, it could be a wonderful move. However, if I were one of the other parties I wouldn't be quite so sure. No doubt some will argue that Stockport FC didn't fare too well in its association with Sale, and that that is a good enough reason for saying "no". The joint statement reads as though it was drafted by someone with a Sale Sharks bias.

      Crossford Futures, they may be, but they certainly have very little past.
      MikeGC liked this
      By Van Cannonball
      #13203
      I think that making a decision based on completely different circumstances and a different owner would be obstinate.

      Stockport County were in financial difficulties and Stockport council were not interested in any developments.

      If what’s offered to the existing clubs is not beneficial In terms of facilities then they’ll (rightly) say no thanks.

      If we offer something that the council won’t go for, then it won’t happen anyway.

      Therefore, it will only happen if both beneficial to the clubs and acceptable to the council. In these circumstances it would then be odd for a club to say no.

      It doesn’t really matter who drafted the statement, clearly it’s been done with the consent of the clubs and making it clear they have a veto shows that Sale intend to do what it takes to convince them of the benefit . I therefore struggle to see the objections at this stage.
      SaleFC, Yonah, Flumpty and 1 others liked this
      User avatar
      By MikeGC
      #13710
      Listening to BBC radio Manchester, phone in show with Andy Burnham
      Couple of callers really opposed to this potential development.
      They make an excellent case, against
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