By SaleFC
#18985
iBozz wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:49 pm
RFU plans big shake-up to get National Leagues clubs back in action.


I suppose it is better than nothing, and I'd struggle to come up with a viable way to restart the leagues myseld, but I'm not sure that I like the idea of the large pool league.
Difficult on a few fronts.
1) Heywood Road is classified as a stadium and Trafford Council aren't allowing stadiums to reopen to supporters. No crowds, no games. The cost of opening Heywood and satisfying the Covid19 requirements is pretty burdensome. We have Sale Sharks women on Saturday and the ground safety requirements are lengthy to say the least.
2) The huge mismatches. Caldy won Nat2 at a canter last season and struggled in Nat 1 the season before. That's not to say every game would be easy. The step up from Nat 2 to Nat 1 is pretty large.
Having said that, it would be nice to see some rugby being played live at some point.
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By iBozz
#19013
SaleFC wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:58 am
iBozz wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:49 pm
RFU plans big shake-up to get National Leagues clubs back in action.


I suppose it is better than nothing, and I'd struggle to come up with a viable way to restart the leagues myseld, but I'm not sure that I like the idea of the large pool league.
Difficult on a few fronts.
1) Heywood Road is classified as a stadium and Trafford Council aren't allowing stadiums to reopen to supporters. No crowds, no games. The cost of opening Heywood and satisfying the Covid19 requirements is pretty burdensome. We have Sale Sharks women on Saturday and the ground safety requirements are lengthy to say the least.
2) The huge mismatches. Caldy won Nat2 at a canter last season and struggled in Nat 1 the season before. That's not to say every game would be easy. The step up from Nat 2 to Nat 1 is pretty large.
Having said that, it would be nice to see some rugby being played live at some point.


Thanks, SFC.

I infer from your comments that the Sale Sharks Women will be playing behind closed doors on Saturday? Do you have a kick off time for those who might want to follow the game on Social Media, if anyone is reporting it "live"? I appreciate that this is an SS game and not an 1861 fixture, but I can't find anything on their website about it.

And, I assume, the "regional" approach to the [temporarily] merged league would be to avoid Clubs having to travel huge distances to fulfil what will essentially be friendlies for the duration?
By Yorky1000
#19033
Morning Ibozz.

The problem is, if Sale Sharks cant keep virus free, how does the semi-pro game keep virus free?

As spectators, we can watch Nat 1 and 2 with a degree of safety, although I think the return of the SSSi may be necessary.
By DaveAitch
#19038
I'm not sure Caldy struggled quite as much the season before, in National 1, as is implied above. Had Sale not abdicated in its final game, Caldy would have stayed up. True, it wasn't the best of seasons but in a 16 team league the bottom 9 teams were separated by only 15 points.
By SaleFC
#19053
DaveAitch wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:26 pm
I'm not sure Caldy struggled quite as much the season before, in National 1, as is implied above. Had Sale not abdicated in its final game, Caldy would have stayed up. True, it wasn't the best of seasons but in a 16 team league the bottom 9 teams were separated by only 15 points.
The point being made was that there was a step up. As for "capitulating" in our final game. Maybe if Caldy had managed to beat us either home or away they'd have stayed up?
However, neither team has set the world on fire in Nat 1 in any of the seasons they've played in it. The step up is a large one.
By SaleFC
#19054
iBozz wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:18 am

Thanks, SFC.

I infer from your comments that the Sale Sharks Women will be playing behind closed doors on Saturday? Do you have a kick off time for those who might want to follow the game on Social Media, if anyone is reporting it "live"? I appreciate that this is an SS game and not an 1861 fixture, but I can't find anything on their website about it.

And, I assume, the "regional" approach to the [temporarily] merged league would be to avoid Clubs having to travel huge distances to fulfil what will essentially be friendlies for the duration?
Hi,
KO is scheduled for 3pm. They're a sharks team using our ground, so you'll need to rely on Sharks for updates etc. I do believe they're "streaming" the game, but what form that takes is anyone's guess.
You are correct. There are no crowds for the moment. Trafford won't allow it, even if the RFU did.
The regional approach thing is one of those great ideas on paper, but,
the devil is definitely in the detail.
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By DaveAitch
#19056
Well, FC, of course you are correct that most leagues are a step up. I suppose it's whether playing strength improves ahead of promotion, so the team is strong enough to cope. To a degree it has always been the case than money has helped to fund success, but it, money, is far more important that it has ever been.
I fear for rugby, particularly social rugby. Many things have happened in the game, and life in general, which have put pressure on the game, but covid-19 might be the final nail in the coffin for some, mainly metaphorically that is (hopefully not literally for any but the unluckiest few).
As an aside, I believe golf clubs have had something off a windfall. A friend said the other day that his club was dying as membership numbers fell. Now, with covid, people looking for a sport to play have discovered golf, and there is now a waiting list for membership. It's an I'll wind, and all that.
By SaleFC
#19059
DaveAitch wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:33 pm
Well, FC, of course you are correct that most leagues are a step up. I suppose it's whether playing strength improves ahead of promotion, so the team is strong enough to cope. To a degree it has always been the case than money has helped to fund success, but it, money, is far more important that it has ever been.
I fear for rugby, particularly social rugby. Many things have happened in the game, and life in general, which have put pressure on the game, but covid-19 might be the final nail in the coffin for some, mainly metaphorically that is (hopefully not literally for any but the unluckiest few).
As an aside, I believe golf clubs have had something off a windfall. A friend said the other day that his club was dying as membership numbers fell. Now, with covid, people looking for a sport to play have discovered golf, and there is now a waiting list for membership. It's an I'll wind, and all that.
The step up we found from Nat 2 to Nat 1 was about speed. Speed with which teams capitalised on mistakes were a huge wake up call for us. It took probably six or seven game to get used to just that. As for club survival? I fear it too. Some clubs will definitely go to the wall, not just big professional clubs with big wage bills, but clubs who need footfall into their bars to sustain simple things like groundsman, electricity, heating and rates. People seem to be totally unaware of the basic day to day costs of just maintaining pitches let alone buildings.
By SaleFC
#19084
DaveAitch wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:01 pm
...added to which, will sponsors want to carry on if there isn't really a product to sponsor.
Agreed. The only hope for most clubs is a thriving minis and juniors section. Most clubs have them and some like Caldy and Bowdon have them embedded in the club. That integration into the club, is the key. They provide a financial shot in the arm as well as keep people interested. Failing that, Sponsors will lose interest except those who are actively involved business people who have been members of the club for years and expect nothing in return for their money.
One thing is for certain, when we emerge from this crisis, the landscape will have definitely changed and clubs will need to ensure they diversify their revenue to cover their costs, or they'll fall by the wayside.
By DaveAitch
#19094
I am not sure how well minis/juniors integrate into other clubs but the was a feeling a couple of years ago by some involved with the Caldy minis that they were only really there to make up the funds. Whether that persists, or was sorted I can't say. What I can say from the (recent) years I did the 4th team, 2008-2012 or thereabouts, is that the club itself was not bothered about it. Individuals were, but the club was not. It folded soon after I finished and the 3rd team didn't last too much longer.

There is a great bunch of lads doing the ground work under the leadership of Dickie Smith, who was the best referee going in his time. I can't name everyone, but I would like to single out John and Phil Wylie, if it's possible to single out two people, for all they have done over the years. I say 'lads', but the average age is probably 70+. I don't know what the club does once the current stalwarts are out of action. There are some younger ones who are proper clubmen, but not in the numbers that used to be the case. It's definitely tough times ahead, and would have been even without the problem that is covid.
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By Flumpty
#19097
DaveAitch wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:38 pm
I am not sure how well minis/juniors integrate into other clubs but the was a feeling a couple of years ago by some involved with the Caldy minis that they were only really there to make up the funds.
I've heard the same thing said about several Clubs - that the only reason that they "tolerate" M&J sections is because they are a cash cow. The Senior Club has little/no interest in them.
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By poyntonshark
#19106
My view probably not relevant as so long ago that I was involved, but that's never stopped me sticking my oar in before so you can have my view anyway. At Scunny the minis and juniors were always seen as essential to the club's well being and future survival.
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By DaveAitch
#19108
From a playing point of view I felt that mini rugby was too much, too soon. By the time they reached adult rugby age they had ten, or more, years of turning up every Sunday and for many, or even most, hat was enough.
Senior rugby has also ceased to be fun. The result has become too important. While it might work having 1st teams in leagues it becomes something of a nonsense by the time you reach 4th or 5th team level. Replacements haven't helped either. Players who want to play, want to play not sit on a bench. The knock on effect is that lower teams can be, say, a couple of players short while on the next pitch several spend their afternoon keeping a bench warm.
It would take a lot of hard work by a significant number of people to get rugby back to where it should be. The glory, though, is in attaching yourself to the first team or a Premiership club. Watching used to be something that was done alongside playing or after a playing career had finished. Now, for some at least, it is instead off.
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By iBozz
#19115
A personal view here, so no cage rattling intended - been there, done that and got the t-shirt.

SFC suffered because we have only one pitch at Heywood Road and the M&Js were thus located at our Carrington facilities. They therefore didn't feel part of SFC and, because they were remote from the main Clubhouse, many of the senior members were only vaguely aware of the M&Js existence.

A few seasons ago, there was a concerted effort to bring the two "sides" together and highly skilled mathematical geniuses were unceremoniously sacked and those with more nimble brains and those better at doing sums were given the job of manning the scoreboard, etc. The M&Js also helped on the gates on matchdays.

All this is to the benefit of both "sides" and the Club feels more integrated these days.

In addition, much work is being done at Carrington now that SS have yielded their lease on the SFC facilities and moved next door to the former Manchester City training ground and this will increase the feeling of "one Club" which can only be a good thing.

I believe that all Clubs need a thriving M&J section so that we have a constant supply of new blood throughout the Club.

I am reminded of the late Harold Stanley's observation when I interviewed him for a magazine article when he became SFC's President. I asked him what was his job as president and he replied: "Sale have been here for 150 years, it is my job to make sure that we are still here in 150 years time."

i think that we should all have that same objective at our own Clubs.
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By SaleFC
#19119
iBozz wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:37 am
A personal view here, so no cage rattling intended - been there, done that and got the t-shirt.

SFC suffered because we have only one pitch at Heywood Road and the M&Js were thus located at our Carrington facilities. They therefore didn't feel part of SFC and, because they were remote from the main Clubhouse, many of the senior members were only vaguely aware of the M&Js existence.

A few seasons ago, there was a concerted effort to bring the two "sides" together and highly skilled mathematical geniuses were unceremoniously sacked and those with more nimble brains and those better at doing sums were given the job of manning the scoreboard, etc. The M&Js also helped on the gates on matchdays.

All this is to the benefit of both "sides" and the Club feels more integrated these days.

In addition, much work is being done at Carrington now that SS have yielded their lease on the SFC facilities and moved next door to the former Manchester City training ground and this will increase the feeling of "one Club" which can only be a good thing.

I believe that all Clubs need a thriving M&J section so that we have a constant supply of new blood throughout the Club.

I am reminded of the late Harold Stanley's observation when I interviewed him for a magazine article when he became SFC's President. I asked him what was his job as president and he replied: "Sale have been here for 150 years, it is my job to make sure that we are still here in 150 years time."

i think that we should all have that same objective at our own Clubs.
I totally agree with every word of that.
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By iBozz
#19125
SaleFC wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:02 am

I totally agree with every word of that.

:yikes:
By SaleFC
#19128
iBozz wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:41 am
SaleFC wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:02 am

I totally agree with every word of that.

:yikes:
Happens occasionally! :)
Having been Chair of M&J's for four years there was quite a lot of initial resistance to them from the "older" members. We'd only been going a few years and had gone from 0-150 children so had to move from Heywood to Carrington. We're now way past 250 children every Sunday with a full compliment from Tricky's Pups (toddlers) to Senior Colts. We've got every size from 2 foot tall to 6'7" tall (a senior colt obv). Our https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/salefcrugby is nearing £5000 to get our clubhouse at Carrington up and running along with changing rooms. If anyone is interested, we've got an autographed copy of the iconic "Mudman"Picture on there at the moment autographed by England and Sale legends Fran Cotton and Steve Smith.
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