By Superstar
#19591
There is a very interesting discussion going on on the Worcester Board about the indifference shown by many to the women's game. Much of what is being posted could be about our indifference to our women's team.

Warriors Women Indifference ?

Why am I concerned? I am a Club man and have supported all levels of the clubs that would have me as a member. And there have been many. Sale Sharks women deserve the same support as the men - and after all they are the only Sale Sharks team playing at the moment. So come on and give them some support

True the club has not helped itself by having naff all on the Offi site but you can follow what's going on on the Womens Facebook page. We all need to pull our socks up and get behind them
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By iBozz
#19592
I tried to follow the game on Saturday on Twitter (me on Twitter? Yes, I know, but needs must and self-isolation clouds one's judgement more than a little!) and there was a post that they (whoever they are) were live from Heywood Road, then nothing until the half time score and then ... nothing, not even a full time score that I could find at the time. Fortunately, Saracens posted the result.

I wasn't able to watch the on-line stream this week so Twitter was all there was.

Last term I went to see Sale 1861 at both Heywood Road and Carrington, whenever theatre and other commitments permitted (weekends aren't usually free - or weren't until bat tartare became a popular dish in China) and throughly enjoyed the games.

I hope to continue to follow both 1861 and SS Women in the future and like you, Superstar, and (I must tread a tad carefully here :lol ) I just wish that they both got more consistent coverage and publicity.
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By IrishShark
#19594
Superstar wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:18 pm
True the club has not helped itself by having naff all on the Offi site but you can follow what's going on on the Womens Facebook page. We all need to pull our socks up and get behind them
I disagree they've been pushing the team a fair bit with 6 of the last 8 articles in 2weeks about the women's squad. As well as broadcasting all their games despite not being necessary online.

https://www.youtube.com/c/salesharksrugbyclub/featured
By ale shark
#19595
"Sale Sharks women deserve the same support as the men"

This might upset some but no they don't.

I'm struggling to understand what's going on and I’m someone who follows rugby. The appetite for supporting woman's rugby in the region is marginal at best (any attendance figures for last year to prove me wrong?) but we now appear to have two different teams both representing the metropolitan area of Sale and presumably competing for the same spectators and sponsors.

I've not followed the full history of the 1861 team but the SS teams seems to be a franchise that appeared overnight. I have no idea if they compete on the same level or what they are in terms of professionalism. I was surprised that season ticket holders weren’t canvassed to assess any crossover interest from the men’s game to the woman’s team, that would seem a logical place to start.

I have a passing interest in women’s sport as a whole but not women’s rugby, it just doesn’t register as something to invest my time in. Six Nations on-line highlights is about my limit. If a 6N match was played in Manchester I’d be tempted to go as a one-off.

I did ask my wife not so long ago about what she thought of the increased media interest/agenda in promoting women’s sport and specifically about a Sale women’s team. She has a casual interest in rugby, (Six Nations, a couple of big Sale games etc…) but wasn’t in the slightest bit bothered about the existence of a Sale women’s team.

I’d register more of an interest if the woman’s sport developed organically and stood on its own feet rather than just being dumped on us with the assumed expectation that folk will be interested because they like a men’s team of the same name that has been around for 100+ years.

Shall I post this? Why not, not much else is going on :nervous:
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By SaleFC
#19612
I can't speak for Sale Sharks, but, I can speak for Sale 1861. This was a team we wanted to develop to improve our club. In our view, the more people playing rugby the better. From a club point of view, many aeons ago, Sale FC had a very good women's team which with the advent of professionalism was pushed to one side and the club view that as a mistake from out past.
We want to grow Sale 1861 and push towards level 2. We've invested heavily in it, with new sponsors, the DoR is the men's 1st team captain, we've got external coaching and we link with Sale Sharks in some aspects as a player pathway, we've crowdfunded for new changing facilities etc. Also, 6 of last years squad are now in the Sale Sharks Women's squad.

Not only that, but when the women played at home (pre-covid) we do get well over 100 people attending and drinking in the bar etc (and boy do they drink), this may not sound much, but if you dial back 6/7 years at Sale FC, the figures were about the same for the mens first team games. Now in Nat 1, we occasionally get more than that for a pre-match meal.

However, to say that there's "indifference to Sale Sharks Women" is an interesting considering the team has literally only played twice. As time goes on, we all expect the game to grow as evidenced by 16,000 people viewing the first game on Twitter/Facebook streams and more than 10,000 for the second game on Facebook alone.
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By MikeGC
#19614
It’s undoubtedly a little premature to say there is Indifference.
Under normal circumstances there would have been an opportunity to attend a match - the true test of interest ?
There seems to be a big number of girls and young women taking part in rugby at many junior clubs across our region and under normal circumstances that might have translated into decent crowd numbers - but we'll never know.
That said, Waterloo rarely achieved large crowds playing in the Tyrell last season.
By eBike
#19629
Not on social media, never will be.

My point is that the games can be streamed on social media but not on the Official Sale Sharks site.

Oh well, more important things to be concerned about these days
User avatar
By IrishShark
#19634
eBike wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:44 pm
Not on social media, never will be.

My point is that the games can be streamed on social media but not on the Official Sale Sharks site.

Oh well, more important things to be concerned about these days
YouTube isn't social media. You don't have to be signed up to any of them to watch the match.
Chances are if they did put the matches on the website it would just use the video player of one of these sites so you would still be using those sites anyway.

If I remember I'll embed a link to their next match if available on here.
By SaleFC
#19639
eBike wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:44 pm
Not on social media, never will be.

My point is that the games can be streamed on social media but not on the Official Sale Sharks site.

Oh well, more important things to be concerned about these days
Technically you are on social media....
Also, as for streaming on a website, there's issues with bandwidth, they'd only be able to stream it via a link to either YouTube or Facebook. So, that brings you back to watching it on one of those two streams.
By SimonG
#19654
SaleFC wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:35 pm
eBike wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:44 pm
Not on social media, never will be.

My point is that the games can be streamed on social media but not on the Official Sale Sharks site.

Oh well, more important things to be concerned about these days
Technically you are on social media....
Also, as for streaming on a website, there's issues with bandwidth, they'd only be able to stream it via a link to either YouTube or Facebook. So, that brings you back to watching it on one of those two streams.
True but I think the point is not so much how you are watching it but advertising the fact that is available to those who don't use Twitter, Facebook etc.
By SCRUM30
#19670
Never been a fan of women’s rugby, as a 50 odd year old former/not given up yet tight head, I’ve always found rugby clubs as a male haven.( safe zones these days🤮) my biggest issue with womens rugby is that they have NOT gone through the growing period that men’s did.
Men’s rugby started in the back of pubs etc with no proper changing rooms and we got on with it. Even someone my age can remember playing at grounds And changing rooms that would be shut down these days, Ashton on mersey in the late 80s with the lovely mud pitch and OPEN air (in parts) changing rooms to name but a few.
We had to endure muddy cold baths full off all sorts of filth in them ,then had a bloody good drink.
I know conditions have changed much for the better these days, yet still sometimes I miss the old camaraderie of moaning about rubbish conditions.
IF women set up their OWN teams/clubs instead of jumping on the backs of men’s hard work over the years I would have much more time and respect for them.
Ps don’t get me started on the WOMEN experts on TV who know NOTHING about the men’s professional game.
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By IrishShark
#19671
SCRUM30 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 pm
Never been a fan of women’s rugby, as a 50 odd year old former/not given up yet tight head, I’ve always found rugby clubs as a male haven.( safe zones these days🤮) my biggest issue with womens rugby is that they have NOT gone through the growing period that men’s did.
Men’s rugby started in the back of pubs etc with no proper changing rooms and we got on with it. Even someone my age can remember playing at grounds And changing rooms that would be shut down these days, Ashton on mersey in the late 80s with the lovely mud pitch and OPEN air (in parts) changing rooms to name but a few.
We had to endure muddy cold baths full off all sorts of filth in them ,then had a bloody good drink.
I know conditions have changed much for the better these days, yet still sometimes I miss the old camaraderie of moaning about rubbish conditions.
IF women set up their OWN teams/clubs instead of jumping on the backs of men’s hard work over the years I would have much more time and respect for them.
Ps don’t get me started on the WOMEN experts on TV who know NOTHING about the men’s professional game.
Considering that the male experts on TV are also lambasted for knowing nothing they're in good company.
Also most old clubs want women's rugby for their membership fees since there is a decline in participation in the sport nationally.
By Monty9
#19673
SCRUM30 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 pm
Never been a fan of women’s rugby, as a 50 odd year old former/not given up yet tight head, I’ve always found rugby clubs as a male haven.( safe zones these days🤮) my biggest issue with womens rugby is that they have NOT gone through the growing period that men’s did.
Men’s rugby started in the back of pubs etc with no proper changing rooms and we got on with it. Even someone my age can remember playing at grounds And changing rooms that would be shut down these days, Ashton on mersey in the late 80s with the lovely mud pitch and OPEN air (in parts) changing rooms to name but a few.
We had to endure muddy cold baths full off all sorts of filth in them ,then had a bloody good drink.
I know conditions have changed much for the better these days, yet still sometimes I miss the old camaraderie of moaning about rubbish conditions.
IF women set up their OWN teams/clubs instead of jumping on the backs of men’s hard work over the years I would have much more time and respect for them.
Ps don’t get me started on the WOMEN experts on TV who know NOTHING about the men’s professional game.
WOW. I don’t think they will worry about the fact you are not a fan but that is definitely one of the worst posts I have read on here and that is saying something.

I’m assuming you set up your own club and didn’t jump on the back of someone else’s hard work? Have you also considered the challenges that you went through, like a cold muddy bath as you mention, maybe aren’t as much of a challenge as the sexism people like you show women trying to enjoy our fantastic game? Do you also hold mini and juniors in the same distain when they are added to “mens” clubs?

Really hoping you are now going to call me stupid for falling for your “joke”
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By Yareet
#19674
SCRUM30 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 pm
Never been a fan of women’s rugby, as a 50 odd year old former/not given up yet tight head, I’ve always found rugby clubs as a male haven.( safe zones these days🤮) my biggest issue with womens rugby is that they have NOT gone through the growing period that men’s did.
Men’s rugby started in the back of pubs etc with no proper changing rooms and we got on with it. Even someone my age can remember playing at grounds And changing rooms that would be shut down these days, Ashton on mersey in the late 80s with the lovely mud pitch and OPEN air (in parts) changing rooms to name but a few.
We had to endure muddy cold baths full off all sorts of filth in them ,then had a bloody good drink.
I know conditions have changed much for the better these days, yet still sometimes I miss the old camaraderie of moaning about rubbish conditions.
IF women set up their OWN teams/clubs instead of jumping on the backs of men’s hard work over the years I would have much more time and respect for them.
Ps don’t get me started on the WOMEN experts on TV who know NOTHING about the men’s professional game.
Fairly sure men’s rugby started in public schools but hey ho
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By SaleFC
#19676
SCRUM30 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 pm
Never been a fan of women’s rugby, as a 50 odd year old former/not given up yet tight head, I’ve always found rugby clubs as a male haven.( safe zones these days🤮) my biggest issue with womens rugby is that they have NOT gone through the growing period that men’s did.
Men’s rugby started in the back of pubs etc with no proper changing rooms and we got on with it. Even someone my age can remember playing at grounds And changing rooms that would be shut down these days, Ashton on mersey in the late 80s with the lovely mud pitch and OPEN air (in parts) changing rooms to name but a few.
We had to endure muddy cold baths full off all sorts of filth in them ,then had a bloody good drink.
I know conditions have changed much for the better these days, yet still sometimes I miss the old camaraderie of moaning about rubbish conditions.
IF women set up their OWN teams/clubs instead of jumping on the backs of men’s hard work over the years I would have much more time and respect for them.
Ps don’t get me started on the WOMEN experts on TV who know NOTHING about the men’s professional game.
Wow, just wow.
Men's rugby "started In the back of pubs"? lol, so, not say at Rugby School, followed by other public schools then, Universities?
By Clutch
#19684
Think Maggie is a good pundit. She’s normally on bbc and puts the others to shame.

The problem is there’s only so much rugby I can watch. I’d like to watch FC, Jets and the women’s team but hard to find the time.

Women’s game is good, and is the shining light of women’s team games in traditional mens sport.

In many ways it’s better to watch than the men’s game.
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By IrishShark
#19741
SCRUM30 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 pm
Ps don’t get me started on the WOMEN experts on TV who know NOTHING about the men’s professional game.
Rory Best possibly an expert on the men's pro game said today that "they'll certainly try to play some rugby" in relation to the Ireland vs Italy six nations game today. Riveting.
By Bod
#19766
I spent a good while on the W&G development programme in Somerset. At grass roots level, the biggest game changer was when I invited the Treasurers of a few clubs to attend one of our summer County rugby development events some 6//7 years ago for U18/U15/U13 girls - we had nearly 250 lasses turn up. Suddenly the Girls programmes have taken off massively across the County with the clubs.
Treasurers love subscriptions.

If anyone tells you the girls don't enjoy contact sports please advise them they know nothing. The biggest problem is the parents worrying whether their lass will come off the park with a split eye or broken nose. The girls DO NOT CARE.



It's never straightforward to accommodate the W&G programme - that's why their games at clubs are always the last event on a Sunday, but, hey, they roll with it.

A fair chance and a level playing field is the only request

As for SSW - they'll crack it across 3 years. Of that I'm convinced
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By Stet
#19839
In support of aleshark, if you canvassed most men who watch Sale, they would agree that women’s rugby (sport) holds no interest. At the moment it’s just foisted upon us, (as are all of theses clueless women pundits) and we are not supposed to say so.
Are you saying that Maggie Alphonse opinions are more relevant than Brian O’Driscoll’s - please do me a favour,
Women pundits should stick to commenting on women’s sport - there i said it, very un PC
By SCRUM30
#19840
Exactly 👍👍 the point I was trying to make is that no woman has played to the same elite level that the men have. I am not doubting that Maggie is not one of the best women players but for me it’s like trying to compare apples to oranges!!
By JohnJ of HM
#19841
I must admit, I'm horrified and saddened by some of the views expressed in this thread. Admittedly I haven't got sufficient time to watch the women at Sale as often as I'd like but that equally applies to the Jets as well. However, I thoroughly enjoy watching the England women's game on TV, where I think the standard is very high.

It's the same attitude I found when I set a question on a recent quiz which asked. 'Who is the most capped England Rugby Union prop?' The answer of course is Rocky Clarke but I was chastised for 'setting a trick question'.

Equally I have no problems with women commentators and certainly usually preferable to the awful Brian Moore, Eddie Butler and Jonathan Davies.
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User avatar
By poyntonshark
#19844
I think Harold Wilson will get in. Not sure England will do very well at the Mexico world cup though.


Sorry, we have transported ourselves back to the 60's.........haven't we? Why are these women allowed to be out doing "jobs", they should be at home with the kids, cooking their husband's tea.
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By ageinghoody
#19850
Stet wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:49 pm
In support of aleshark, if you canvassed most men who watch Sale, they would agree that women’s rugby (sport) holds no interest. ...
Do you have a scrap of evidence for that rather startling assertion?
User avatar
By MikeGC
#19857
SaleFC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:30 am
It appears the dinosaurs are wandering amongst us.
If we want rugby to grow, we need to include both halves of the population, not just the 50+ year old men stuck in the 1970's.
.
SOME 50+ year old men

There you go, fixed that for you
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By iBozz
#19859
Before bat al dente became so fashionable I worked many evenings and weekends but, when commitments allowed, I tried to get to the 1861 games at HR or Carrington and I thoroughly enjoyed them.

StheE and I have been to a few England games at Twickenham, as well as the England v Uruguay RWC 2013 game at the Manchester City ground, and stayed on to watch the following women's games.

If you haven't seen the women then give them a go. Go to three or four games before deciding whether it is for you or not as you can't judge any sport on just one game as you might have hit one of those games (which exist in the men's game as well) where you wish you'd rather have stayed at home and watched some grey paint dry.

Each to their own, of course, but there are some class players in 1861. It's a bit early to judge how SSW will gel as a team as they've had a bit of a rocky start, but 1861 took off like a rocket and, I hope, will continue to improve.
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By SaleFC
#19862
MikeGC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:42 am
SaleFC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:30 am
It appears the dinosaurs are wandering amongst us.
If we want rugby to grow, we need to include both halves of the population, not just the 50+ year old men stuck in the 1970's.
.
SOME 50+ year old men

There you go, fixed that for you
Fair point especially as I'm 55 in a couple of weeks :-)
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By iBozz
#19868
SaleFC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:59 am
Fair point especially as I'm 55 in a couple of weeks :-)

55? The innocence of youth! :mrgreen:
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By Yareet
#19873
Stet wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:49 pm

Are you saying that Maggie Alphonse opinions are more relevant than Brian O’Driscoll’s - please do me a favour,
About centre play, probably not. About what goes on in a scrum, yes definitely.

I’d say they’re both equally able to talk about life in an international rugby team) at the time they played. For both of them, that time is now definitely in the past. Should we only therefore use current players as pundits?

Both of them are also equally able to watch the game, keep abreast of current topics and speak about what is going on.
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By MikeGC
#19876
Barring the odd supporter who isn't interested in the Women's game it also appears that the Sale Sharks "Franchise" are pretty indifferent too.

It's not easy to find stuff related to them on the official website (I haven't checked for a while but it was extremely difficult a couple of weeks ago) and as a final blow to their esteem they don't feature in the launch of next term's kit which I assume they will share.

Sale Sharks Women have a good number of current international players amongst the squad, yet Sale Sharks didn't feel any of them was worthy of putting the new kit on for a photo opportunity.
By Olyy
#19878
MikeGC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:17 pm
It's not easy to find stuff related to them on the official website (I haven't checked for a while but it was extremely difficult a couple of weeks ago) and as a final blow to their esteem they don't feature in the launch of next term's kit which I assume they will share.
If you go onto the homepage 2 of the 3 highlighted news stories are for SS Women,
The latest match report is SSW
The three latest videos are SSW,
and they feature in the main banner at the top of the page for the new kit:
Image

MikeGC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:17 pm
Sale Sharks Women have a good number of current international players amongst the squad, yet Sale Sharks didn't feel any of them was worthy of putting the new kit on for a photo opportunity.
They had a full launch for the Women's kit at the start of the month:
https://www.salesharks.com/2020/10/08/s ... e-fixture/
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By Monty9
#19879
MikeGC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:17 pm
It's not easy to find stuff related to them on the official website

Opening a home page is a struggle for you? https://www.salesharks.com/

Highlights of their matches, reports, photos in the new kit and updates on latest fixtures all available without having to master the challenge of navigating past the homepage. The games have also been played live and available through all the clubs social channels.

Lets remember, the team have been "launched" during challenging times with no fans etc, expect to see the coverage ramp up significantly over time.
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By SaleFC
#19884
Monty9 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:31 pm
MikeGC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:17 pm
It's not easy to find stuff related to them on the official website

Opening a home page is a struggle for you? https://www.salesharks.com/

Highlights of their matches, reports, photos in the new kit and updates on latest fixtures all available without having to master the challenge of navigating past the homepage. The games have also been played live and available through all the clubs social channels.

Lets remember, the team have been "launched" during challenging times with no fans etc, expect to see the coverage ramp up significantly over time.

Not to mention the 16,000+ who live streamed the first game on Facebook and Twitter then 10,000 + just on Facebook for the second match. I'd say they're doing pretty well at promoting it given they can't have supporters in, they've played two games and we're having a global pandemic.
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By Monty9
#19886
SaleFC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:32 pm
Not to mention the 16,000+ who live streamed the first game on Facebook and Twitter then 10,000 + just on Facebook for the second match. I'd say they're doing pretty well at promoting it given they can't have supporters in, they've played two games and we're having a global pandemic.


Absolutely, this along with the numerous homepage articles and kit launch pointed out above should have made me remember to just ignore @MikeGC and his usual disdain for the "franchise". Great job from the club so far on this.
User avatar
By MikeGC
#19891
Olyy wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:27 pm
MikeGC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:17 pm
It's not easy to find stuff related to them on the official website (I haven't checked for a while but it was extremely difficult a couple of weeks ago) and as a final blow to their esteem they don't feature in the launch of next term's kit which I assume they will share.
If you go onto the homepage 2 of the 3 highlighted news stories are for SS Women,
The latest match report is SSW
The three latest videos are SSW,
and they feature in the main banner at the top of the page for the new kit:
Image

MikeGC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:17 pm
Sale Sharks Women have a good number of current international players amongst the squad, yet Sale Sharks didn't feel any of them was worthy of putting the new kit on for a photo opportunity.
They had a full launch for the Women's kit at the start of the month:
https://www.salesharks.com/2020/10/08/s ... e-fixture/
.
Thanks Olyy
As I said, it’s been some time since I looked at the Club's website and never a regular viewer, although when the move to start the side was announced I looked a few times.
I've clearly made a daft mistake, thanks for steering me to the right spot
By Monty9
#19895
MikeGC wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:59 pm
Distain ?
Shoot me for making a simple mistake, two choices
excuse me old chap you seem to have missed this ....
or be a richardhead

thanks Monty
Your welcome. It would have taken you less time to look at the website than it did for you to share your regular criticism of the “franchise”. Just a heads up.
By ale shark
#19990
I didn't really want to comment any further on this thread but I was on holiday last week and missed the England game so came back and watched the highlights. This is what the BBC did:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/54765000

The commentary is just abysmal, it makes the whole thing an unwatchable mess, what's worse is that it wasn't even from live coverage so could have been edited. The Tom Curry try is just embarrassing. It sounds like a GCSE media studies project or something.

I'm more than happy to listen to informed pundits (male and female) but in high tempo moments of live sporting action it just sounds so awkward and forced.
User avatar
By Yareet
#19994
ale shark wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:28 am
I didn't really want to comment any further on this thread but I was on holiday last week and missed the England game so came back and watched the highlights. This is what the BBC did:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/54765000

The commentary is just abysmal, it makes the whole thing an unwatchable mess, what's worse is that it wasn't even from live coverage so could have been edited. The Tom Curry try is just embarrassing. It sounds like a GCSE media studies project or something.

I'm more than happy to listen to informed pundits (male and female) but in high tempo moments of live sporting action it just sounds so awkward and forced.
Don’t have a problem with it personally
By ageinghoody
#20011
ale shark wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:28 am
I didn't really want to comment any further on this thread but I was on holiday last week and missed the England game so came back and watched the highlights. This is what the BBC did:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/54765000

The commentary is just abysmal, it makes the whole thing an unwatchable mess, what's worse is that it wasn't even from live coverage so could have been edited. The Tom Curry try is just embarrassing. It sounds like a GCSE media studies project or something.

I'm more than happy to listen to informed pundits (male and female) but in high tempo moments of live sporting action it just sounds so awkward and forced.
Well, "unconvincing" would be my description, but I wasn't too surprised by that. I've often noticed a similar lack when a commentary is added after the event, the live coverage in this case having been on ITV.

The commentator never seems to generate that feeling of immediacy when they already know exactly what is about to happen.
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