#62356
poyntonshark wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:12 am
No Ellis in any of those mixes (did I miss something, he wasn't a short-term signing was he?).
The two sets of twins are obviously a cut above the rest, but all of our senior back rows are perfectly capable of starting without much of drop in overall quality at all. A great opportunity to help preserve everyone's fitness and freshness with proper rotation available.
I simply forgot about Ellis, another option.

I would respectively disagree with you when you say all our senior back rows are capable of starting without much drop in quality. Ellis, Dugdale, Birch etc are not in the same time zone as the Curry's and DP's. That's not to say they are bad, but Cx2 and DPx2 are phenomenal players who walk into most teams in the world.
#62359
Sort of repeating. I hadn't considered Birch as a senior player yet, though I suppose he is now. Everyone had apparently forgotten Ellis. By proper rotation, I didn't mean dumping the "first choice" back row and replacing them all, but T Curry for Dugdale one week, B curry for Ellis another week and the drop in overall quality is low. Still yet to be seen if anyone can come close to filling Dan's boots at 8. I assume Van Rhynn will be the first to try.
#62363
poyntonshark wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:22 am
Sort of repeating. I hadn't considered Birch as a senior player yet, though I suppose he is now. Everyone had apparently forgotten Ellis. By proper rotation, I didn't mean dumping the "first choice" back row and replacing them all, but T Curry for Dugdale one week, B curry for Ellis another week and the drop in overall quality is low. Still yet to be seen if anyone can come close to filling Dan's boots at 8. I assume Van Rhynn will be the first to try.
Sorry I wasn't clear, I can see that now. I had focused too much on the part of your post about minimal quality drop off if we rotate which I don't agree with. Dugdale stepping in for BC in the final showed that imo.

On no.8 I would have thought JLDP or TC will be tried first as (aside from Birch and JB) they are the only squad members with experience there. Van Rhyn is not an 8.
#62370
Birch has been at the club for 5 years and is 24 in September. Despite our injury issues in the 2nd row and back row he has only managed 39 minutes on the field in the Premiership in the whole of last season. I’m quite surprised we have retained him. He is that awkward height at 6’ 4”. I have this feeling that we have failed to pick up as much of the huge amount of talent released by Wasps Worcester and London Irish as we ought to have done. Tough on the likes of Postlethwaite who has not yet found a club.
#62371
Olyy wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:07 am
It's Rugby Inside Line, so monumental pinch of salt needed, but they're saying Akker might be leaving this summer to move back to RSA
Sale just posted on Twitter


We've got 𝘉𝘐𝘎 news for you tomorrow, some good, some bad. 👀
#62372
ShawShark wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:53 pm
Olyy wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:07 am
It's Rugby Inside Line, so monumental pinch of salt needed, but they're saying Akker might be leaving this summer to move back to RSA
Sale just posted on Twitter


We've got 𝘉𝘐𝘎 news for you tomorrow, some good, some bad. 👀
Sounds like Akker out LCD in, to me

Really puts a dampener on LCD's arrival, tbh - we need to sign another senior hooker ASAP, we can't start the season with Taylor and Caine, especially with Taylor's injury record

Bit of a broken record with it now but missing out on Langdon's return to England is an increasingly massive fumble
#62380
Bronzbronx wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:39 pm
Is Taylor's injury record that bad? It was a concussion issue wants it?. Not discrediting that as non injury btw. He played quite a lot earlier in the season
Feel like when he gets an injury it's a bad one - especially his knees, combined he's missed years of his career through knee surgeries
He did have a good run games since rejoining us, up until about this Christmas, tbf, so maybe I'm just overly cautious

I rate Tommy highly, so I'd be happy to see him starting the season but if LCD is Akkers replacement (seeing speculation it might actually be Creevy, now) then he'd miss the start of the season and I don't think Taylor starting with Caine in the bench and no one in reserve is enough
Bronzbronx liked this
#62385
Creevy is a class act. Think he would potentially make a bigger difference than LCD.

If it's Akker out and LCD in, I wonder if it would make sense to pair up another set of brothers and get Tom CD who was released by Leicester to go along with Luke and backfill Ashman.
Last edited by Elgar on Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#62388
RinTin wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:19 pm
Telegraph reporting its Creevy AND LCD coming in.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ckie-move/

I'm pretty frustrated Akker is off as he is my favourite player we have to watch. The way he plays is so dynamic. Wish him well.
Both would be unbelievably good business!
RinTin, Halifaxshark, Olyy and 1 others liked this
#62390
I've always valued set piece over anything else a tight 5 forward offers so I'd be very happy with Creevy coming too
Creevy and LCD coming together would be a great bit of business - considering the circumstances I wouldn't be surprised if we got them both for as much as Akker/Ashman's combined salaries, if not less

Edit: Thinking about it: Akker and Ashman both leaving mid contract could mean we get that money back from their new clubs, making the new signings even more economical
Elgar liked this
#62395
@RinTin we may have to agree to disagree slightly, but I won't let it be said that I didn't squeeze every last drop out of the issue. In the final, we were also missing Dan and Jean-Luc was busy cuddling the other donkey, so 2/3 of a possible "first choice" back row missing (we pick 3 from 4 top class when all fit) against the best team in the league, of course, there was some quality drop. Measured individually I would challenge you to name any player in the country who wouldn't show some quality drop when compared to Tom (there are very few in the world). Changing just one of them makes that drop pretty much negligible against Premiership opposition, we would certainly aim for "first choice" in the big games.

I'm with @Olyy in that I want primary function to be any player's strength, extra abilities are a bonus. So Props must be able to hold up a scrum, then they can go jackalling and running. Hooker used to have to hook the ball, now has to push in the scrum and throw in (yes I know it doesn't have to be the hooker, but surely the days of Berbizier's comedy underam throw-in are consigned to history). To be fair Akker's darts have been more than reasonable of late, but Creevy a step up in that regard. I admit to not paying the most attention to LCD in regards to his line-out work. Both quality players and Creevy is world class at shithousery too, might raise Gus Warr's game even higher. A couple of notes of caution re: Creevy - not sure how much longer we will get out of him at top level. He is also in the preliminary world cup squad for Argentina so could miss the early season, There is an outside chance that LCD could too I suppose, but looking very unlikely/no chance at the moment.
#62398
I think LCD is likely to go to the WC, from what I've read he's almost in full training ATM despite still being
on the walking wounded list

Creevy also likely to go but is third choice for Argentina ATM so would come back to us pretty fresh, and only England has mandatory stand downs - with only 10 teams in the league this season will there be any overlap with the RWC? I know the Prem Cup starts while the RWC is on but not sure about the Prem itself

The coaching aspect has piqued my interest - maybe we'll offer Creevy a Wigglesworth-at-Tigers type deal
#62399
Planet Rugby’s assessment

“ The Sale Sharks are in talks to sign two international hookers, Agustin Creevy and Luke Cowan-Dickie, with Akker van der Merwe departing the Premiership club.

Creevy, 38, is set to continue his career beyond the Rugby World Cup and remain in the Premiership after London Irish’s collapse.

Meanwhile, Cowan-Dickie is looking for a new club after his deal to join Montpellier fell through due to a failed medical.

Two new hookers in, one departs

According to Telegraph Sport, Sale boss Alex Sanderson is keen to add the two internationals to his roster to replace van der Merwe who is set to return to South Africa.

The report explains that the three-Test cap Springboks hooker will join the Bulls a year before his contract was due to expire. With van der Merwe and Ewan Ashman’s departures from the club, Sale Sharks needs reinforcements in the position.

The Telegraph’s source noted that ‘Creevy is eager to remain in England and begin a career transition into coaching, while Sale are thought to be keen on using his experience to guide younger players’.

Creevy has been named in Michael Cheika’s Los Pumas squad for the upcoming Rugby Championship and is in line to make their Rugby World Cup squad. The veteran hooker has played 97 times for his country and is a former captain of the Test team.

If Sanderson does secure the services of the two hookers, their new additions will tally to five.

Stormers back five forward Ernst van Rhyn, Bristol centre Sam Bedlow and Stade Francais outside back Telusa Veainu have all signed for the side ahead of the 2023/24 season.

Previous reports linked Tolu Latu with Sale, but after Cowan-Dickie’s move fell through, Montpellier moved to secure the Wallaby’s services.”
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#62400
poyntonshark wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:45 am
@RinTin we may have to agree to disagree slightly, but I won't let it be said that I didn't squeeze every last drop out of the issue. In the final, we were also missing Dan and Jean-Luc was busy cuddling the other donkey, so 2/3 of a possible "first choice" back row missing (we pick 3 from 4 top class when all fit) against the best team in the league, of course, there was some quality drop. Measured individually I would challenge you to name any player in the country who wouldn't show some quality drop when compared to Tom (there are very few in the world). Changing just one of them makes that drop pretty much negligible against Premiership opposition, we would certainly aim for "first choice" in the big games.

I'm with @Olyy in that I want primary function to be any player's strength, extra abilities are a bonus. So Props must be able to hold up a scrum, then they can go jackalling and running. Hooker used to have to hook the ball, now has to push in the scrum and throw in (yes I know it doesn't have to be the hooker, but surely the days of Berbizier's comedy underam throw-in are consigned to history). To be fair Akker's darts have been more than reasonable of late, but Creevy a step up in that regard. I admit to not paying the most attention to LCD in regards to his line-out work. Both quality players and Creevy is world class at shithousery too, might raise Gus Warr's game even higher. A couple of notes of caution re: Creevy - not sure how much longer we will get out of him at top level. He is also in the preliminary world cup squad for Argentina so could miss the early season, There is an outside chance that LCD could too I suppose, but looking very unlikely/no chance at the moment.
Morning! Final comment on this from me I promise

The back row from the semi saw 1 change for the final, Dugdale in for BC. The drop off was noticable, that was the point I was trying to make.

Completely understand your point though and agree re the quality of our 4 brothers. Irreplaceable.
#62406
Olyy wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 6:17 am
I think LCD is likely to go to the WC, from what I've read he's almost in full training ATM despite still being on the walking wounded list
Take this back - Borthwick has confirmed a shoulder issue hasn't recovered enough for him to be in consideration,

Makes sense why he was taking part in all the running drills despite being injured, then - I thought it was a lower limb injury he had
#62410
Creevy would be a great signing. LCD looks likely to be a bit of a punt ( a bit like Manu ).
Shoulder injury on a hooker will be a bit of a liability ?
Perhaps they are hoping the physios have the ability to rectify his rehabilitation promptly.
#62457
Surbiton_Shark wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2023 12:50 pm
RinTin wrote:Outlets everywhere reporting LCD has been signed and we are just waiting to announce it.
For a chap who failed his medical in France and now for England I would be surprised if it’s a done deal
I was thinking that. Maybe we’ve agreed in principle but want to see how his neck/shoulder is first.
#62474
The french are a lot more black and white with their medicals.

Injured so not selected for England is different to failing a medical. Failing a medical implies long term issue that will likely not get back to 100%. Not being selected for England just means they don't believe he'll be fit for the world cup.
#62480
RinTin wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:03 am
The french are a lot more black and white with their medicals.

Injured so not selected for England is different to failing a medical. Failing a medical implies long term issue that will likely not get back to 100%. Not being selected for England just means they don't believe he'll be fit for the world cup.
You're right that there are two different issues here but we have to consider both of them. The longer term issue (re the medical) can't be assumed to have gone away just because England thought that he had a fighting chance of making a tournament this autumn (which he turned out not to be able to in any event).
#62481
I didn't say the long term issue had gone away. I was simply clarifying that just because he wasn't selected for the world cup due to injury it doesn't mean he will fail his medical with us. As you say they are 2 different things.

Wasn't the medical in France neck related, but England have said the reason for not selecting is a shoulder injury? Likely one in the same.

All speculation currently, lets see what the week brings. Good news re the academy prop! Would like another Hooker whether it is LCD or not.
#62491
Olyy wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:15 pm
Wilkinson, Gourlay and Rogerson at preseason with Tigers today, from what I've read
https://www.leicestertigers.com/news/ad ... 324-230703

Wilkinson, Rogerson, Joe Powell and Mike Williams officially signed for next season. Very happy for Kieran. And for Rogerson actually that being said.

I think our 25 or so contract extensions earlier this year are what has caused us to be in active during this off season. We've secured a matchday squad for many more years, but that would of course have brought renewed and increased wages.
#62496
I think so, but I guess it depends how the coaches feel about Harper/Jones atm

In theory we've got three senior tightheads, which should be enough (with academy making up the numbers in the prem cup) but Harper/Jones have barely played over the last two seasons (I know Harper missed almost all of last with injury), are the coaches comfortable with them being 2nd/3rd behind Schonert? Do we have someone in the academy who's at prem cup level yet?

But yeah, I'd definitely look to bring him in
#62505
Lord Elpus wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:41 am
You've got to congratulate Basps Warriors and Cheetahs on the size of their salary caps.

Both are going to need considerably bigger changing rooms.
The Cheaters dressing room is known as the Tardis as it is far bigger than it should be to those looking in. They have had a Tardis version of the salary cap for years.
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