[Bucks1861]

https://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/1098753712?-18550:3641

In summary

“ Sale Sharks director of rugby Alex Sanderson has indicated that he will rest Manu Tuilagi for the second consecutive weekend, suggesting that another serious injury could spell the end of the explosive centre’s career.

On the back of a destructive performance against London Irish, Tuilagi attended England’s three-day camp in Teddington at the start of last week.

However, he did not feature for Sale in their 25-15 loss to Exeter Chiefs the following Sunday.

Sanderson described that selection as part of the strategy to manage Tuilagi’s work-load after serious injuries to his groin, hamstring, knee and Achilles over the past decade.

Ahead of his side’s next assignment in the Premiership, a visit to Kingsholm to face Gloucester on a newly-installed artificial pitch, Sanderson spelled out his dilemma and hinted that other coaches have not been as tactful with Tuilagi in the past.”

The article then continues …….



I understand his logic. We’re short of centres though.

[DaveAitch]

If Tuilagi isn't played at all, and doesn't train either, he will remain 100% fit.: It's really quite simple.
Dimes made pretty similar comments about Manu to what Axe has said: Manu still got injured. I think one has to accept that he is one of those players who is always (half) a game away from the next injury, and on that point, see my first paragraph. I'm not sure about the staying 100% fit though, getting up out of an armchair can be dangerous.

[DaveAitch]

To comment further on Axe's thinking:
“What we do know is that it is a faster track and the force you can generate through the ground is increased – hence why you move faster,” Sanderson said. “And Manu produces much more force than most people."
I presume he would be in favour of the mud-baths that many pitches used to be. You could almost swim in one corner of the old Arms Park when there had been heavy rain.

[Elgar]

I read his comment about the next injury being fairly balanced in terms of implicitly acknowledging that this is the case for all players (but Manu's elevated risk comes from the fact that he's relatively injury prone).

I think it's right to more carefully manage Manu compared to other players. His history, as the article says, speaks for itself. Maybe that history indicates his salary cap would have been better spent elsewhere but that's a less helpful argument now that he's under contract.

All that said, suspect he will be included at least in the 22 or 23 shirt this weekend. RJVR will be taking enforced rest so will be able to cover more rest for Tuilagi in the next month or so (and we've a rest week coming up). And otherwise our 10, 12, 13 options for Glaws will all be pretty green (Sam James excluded and assuming RDP is injured as his shoulder looked in bad shape by the end of the Exe match).

[chris1850]

To comment further on Axe's thinking:
“What we do know is that it is a faster track and the force you can generate through the ground is increased – hence why you move faster,” Sanderson said. “And Manu produces much more force than most people."
I presume he would be in favour of the mud-baths that many pitches used to be. You could almost swim in one corner of the old Arms Park when there had been heavy rain.

There was always a pizza to enjoy as an alternative though.......!

[WillC]

I read his comment about the next injury being fairly balanced in terms of implicitly acknowledging that this is the case for all players (but Manu's elevated risk comes from the fact that he's relatively injury prone).

I think it's right to more carefully manage Manu compared to other players. His history, as the article says, speaks for itself. Maybe that history indicates his salary cap would have been better spent elsewhere but that's a less helpful argument now that he's under contract.

All that said, suspect he will be included at least in the 22 or 23 shirt this weekend. RJVR will be taking enforced rest so will be able to cover more rest for Tuilagi in the next month or so (and we've a rest week coming up). And otherwise our 10, 12, 13 options for Glaws will all be pretty green (Sam James excluded and assuming RDP is injured as his shoulder looked in bad shape by the end of the Exe match).

except that the reason it is saying that he is being rested this weekend is because of the artificial pitch. Why say that and then put him on the bench?

[Olyy]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nfl-u ... 2020-10-01

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3641369

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 70401.html


Imagine it won't be too long before plastic pitches are outlawed at the pro level

[Elgar]

I read his comment about the next injury being fairly balanced in terms of implicitly acknowledging that this is the case for all players (but Manu's elevated risk comes from the fact that he's relatively injury prone).

I think it's right to more carefully manage Manu compared to other players. His history, as the article says, speaks for itself. Maybe that history indicates his salary cap would have been better spent elsewhere but that's a less helpful argument now that he's under contract.

All that said, suspect he will be included at least in the 22 or 23 shirt this weekend. RJVR will be taking enforced rest so will be able to cover more rest for Tuilagi in the next month or so (and we've a rest week coming up). And otherwise our 10, 12, 13 options for Glaws will all be pretty green (Sam James excluded and assuming RDP is injured as his shoulder looked in bad shape by the end of the Exe match).

except that the reason it is saying that he is being rested this weekend is because of the artificial pitch. Why say that and then put him on the bench?

Because (1) we're pretty thin on other options. (2) one way of looking at it says that whatever the elevated risk level of playing on a pitch like Kingsholm is is reduced by 75% by playing for 20 instead of 80 minutes.

And (3), coaches / DORs pretty rarely do exactly what they tell the press they are going to do.

[ageinghoody]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nfl-u ... 2020-10-01

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3641369

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 70401.html


Imagine it won't be too long before plastic pitches are outlawed at the pro level

Not that I disagree with the points made, but the two articles there that relate to rugby are three years old.

Maybe a moratorium on any new artificial pitches until a more up-to-date study is carried out, but I can't see the powers-that-be hurrying to insist the existing ones must be ripped up on the basisi of old information.

Incidentally, I was getting rather confused by the Americn article until I realised that "turf" meant artificial turf.

[DaveAitch]

I like the fact that the RFU were installing 100 artificial pitches at grassroots clubs. Presumably once the new pitches were installed they would have ceased to be grassroots clubs. (Report in the Independent )

[Flumpty]

I like the fact that the RFU were installing 100 artificial pitches at grassroots clubs. Presumably once the new pitches were installed they would have ceased to be grassroots clubs. (Report in the Independent )

IIRC, they WERE installing 3G pitches around the country, but it all came to a very rapid, grinding halt over "concerns" and the intiative has been paused.

[DaveAitch]

Besides which, the RFU suddenly found it didn't have such a big pot of money after all.

[poyntonshark]

The injury issues seem to be much less pronounced at amateur levels, although the studies have been very limited. MikeGC a former poster on the SN site (I don't think he is posting here) used to rave about the 3G pitch at his club, Heaton Moor IIRC.

[JohnJ of HM]

Not Heaton Moor, strictly grass there. Burnage?

[Yareet]

Adam Hastings is on this week’s BBC pod and talks about the artificial pitches at Glasgow and Gloucester.

He mentions almost casually the injuries caused - particularly in warmer months.

[DaveAitch]

MikeGC did post on this site early on. His last past was Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:38 am. Burnage was definitely his club. I met him the once when Caldy were hosting some of the NORWIRUL cup finals. He was Burnage president at the time.

For myself, I have been injured on natural grass pitches but have never been injured on an artificial pitch. Mind you, I've only played about 20 minutes on artificial as opposed to many, many hours on proper grass. I have only twice failed to complete a game through injury. Neither was sustained directly on contact another player, but rather contact with the playing surface.
Cricket can prepare the sort of wicket it needs. Rugby clubs are, in the main, stuck with the sort of ground the pitch is on. Caldy's tend to be quite hard all year round, and probably the reason for my two injuries.
It might be that artificial (as laid so far) gives too good a surface, allowing players to run faster. Perhaps a rethink on the method of construction is all that's needed i.e. make them more forgiving and thus slower.
One wonderful thing about artificial: your boots are cleaner after the game than they were before it.

[Olyy]

Adam Hastings is on this week’s BBC pod and talks about the artificial pitches at Glasgow and Gloucester.

He mentions almost casually the injuries caused - particularly in warmer months.

I've never heard a pro player mention them positively tbh - and after a lot of games there's at least one on twitter showing off the injuries they've sustained

I understand how good they are for grass roots etc. but I always hated playing on them (mid-winter training was better than on ice/slime, though)
The skin burns were terrible and that rubber crumb gets everywhere - seen people need their eyes washed out because it's gone under their eyelids

[DaveAitch]

The skin injury problem is easily prevented.

If the injury rate/duration is higher, then one would expect those clubs which use artificial playing surfaces would have a greater number of injured players than those using grass.
A club with natural grass will play 11 home and 7 away games on grass, with four on artificial. A club with artificial would play 15 on artificial and 7 on grass (taking it that there are 4 artificial pitches). Is there evidence of that being the case? I don't know, nor do I know if anyone has considered it when producing "proof".

[SSR]

I think I read somewhere that players get used to playing on artificial pitches.
That suggesst that injuries are less if you play more frequently on your home pitch
also greater practice on artificial surfaces. That would skew the results somewhat?