[StalyShark]

Championship prop against a 30 cap Springbok prop. Who should win that 9/10?

Sorry, got that wrong. But rubbish.

[DaveAitch]

Presumably, as Sanderson had 12 years at Saracens we can expect some of this from Sale in the coming years, unless of course he wasn't involved in such underhand yechniques.

What exactly have Saracens done that we(/any side in the league) don't do?

I don't think they have done anything, Olyy.

[ejndavid95]

Given how we've actually come into the game quite well since the red & were doing so before it, Byron has some severe apologising to do in that changing room.

[StalyShark]

Stinker from AJ today.

[DaveAitch]

I suppose the question is "why does it take a sending off to get the team playing"

[ejndavid95]

I suppose the question is "why does it take a sending off to get the team playing"

That's been our season to be fair, pay poorly lacking ideas for 50 mins before a much improved last 20/30.

[StalyShark]

Rubbish.

Made Saracens make 200+ tackles (double ours). How many line breaks? Sod all. Time to go Deacs.

[poyntonshark]

Wow, Austin Healey just unpicked our season perfectly, read that again AUSTIN HEALEY can see what's wrong. One simple word. THINK.

[StalyShark]

Raffi a bright light and as ever the Currys. Roebuck ok.

Lood should have been given a few weeks off.

Scrum poor.

Has AJ checked out?

Sam James, does anyone (other than management) see what he does?

[Olyy]

Scoreline flatters us tbh, though Saracens weren't very inventive on their attack either tbh so maybe about right


Just a terrible performance, really
Raf and the Currys went well, but scrum, lineout, attack - all poor

Healy right in that we've no vision in the side
DdP's two breaks showed it - one he ended up crabbing so much when he eventually passed to Roebuck he was practically in the stands, the other he took contact, wanting to throw a SBW offload, and knocked on

It's a good job we've got the week off now as Ashman is the only fit hooker in the squad

Wow, Austin Healey just unpicked our season perfectly, read that again AUSTIN HEALEY can see what's wrong. One simple word. THINK.

In defence of Healy he's a fantastic analyst, don't let his marmite personality detract from that

[dinogyro]

Head and neck area from Maro. If that was Lood he’d be off.

Also, in a different incident, I heard the ref say it wasn't a high tackle against Sale as no head contact. But the refs have been giving seat belt tackles all season.

[DaveAitch]

Sam James, does anyone (other than management) see what he does?

H's D?

[dinogyro]

Scoreline flatters us tbh, though Saracens weren't very inventive on their attack either tbh so maybe about right


Just a terrible performance, really
Raf and the Currys went well, but scrum, lineout, attack - all poor

Healy right in that we've no vision in the side
DdP's two breaks showed it - one he ended up crabbing so much when he eventually passed to Roebuck he was practically in the stands, the other he took contact, wanting to throw a SBW offload, and knocked on

It's a good job we've got the week off now as Ashman is the only fit hooker in the squad

Wow, Austin Healey just unpicked our season perfectly, read that again AUSTIN HEALEY can see what's wrong. One simple word. THINK.

In defence of Healy he's a fantastic analyst, don't let his marmite personality detract from that

Yes, he is a master onanist, but he got that one right!

[Streatham Shark]

Well that was chastening. There are glimpses of what we can achieve, particularly in the build up to TCs try, but we are so disjointed. The number of times AJ was filling in at 9 were concerning, and our support play for the first 60 was very poor.

There is no evidence of us trying to play to a particular style. This might partly be be down to the disruption from injuries and call ups, but you don't see the likes of quins suffering the same malaise. Our pack is also much less than the sum of its parts.

Byron was incredibly stupid to react to tomkins winding him up like that. He will be out for quite some time. However it would be nice if there were more penalties given for whooping in players faces, goading them to get penalties. It was notable sarries got done for it once today.

[Alex]

Head and neck area from Maro. If that was Lood he’d be off.

Also, in a different incident, I heard the ref say it wasn't a high tackle against Sale as no head contact. But the refs have been giving seat belt tackles all season.

I thought that a few times with some of the tackles, I guess at least he was consistent with it

[poyntonshark]

Foley called that on 3 separate occasions that I heard, I haven't heard it from any other ref. Doesn't mean he was wrong, but an unusual stance.

[dinogyro]

Reckon Webber could come in as player coach?
Might hit our lineouts

Looks like we'll have to, as we now have one fit hooker in the squad

Remember when we thought we had too many hookers?

[StalyShark]

Sam James, does anyone (other than management) see what he does?

H's D?

He’s the messiah.

To us he’s not the messiah he’s a very perplexing boy (over the past three years).

[DaveAitch]

Foley called that on 3 separate occasions that I heard, I haven't heard it from any other ref. Doesn't mean he was wrong, but an unusual stance.

There seems to have been a slight "downgrading" of seatbelt-type tackles in recent weeks. I've noticed a few that wouldn't have been allowed previously. Whether Foley was always the referee, I couldn't say.

[Olyy]

Reckon Webber could come in as player coach?
Might hit our lineouts

Looks like we'll have to, as we now have one fit hooker in the squad

Remember when we thought we had too many hookers?

Simpler times

[StalyShark]

10th and could be 11th by this time next week.

Time to wield the axe for the future Axe?

Luke or Doherty for Sam J? Reed and Roebuck on the wings?

[Olyy]

Reed and Roebuck on the wings?

Don't exactly have a lot of choice, unless we shoe-horn Luke James back in there!

[DaveAitch]

As said above (not sure by whom), there doesn't seem to any real pattern of play within the club, save a bit of bosh and rely on the MacGinty boot.

Maybe if Sale started with just 14 players things would be in better. It does look as though the players seem to know what to do when down a man (it two). Perhaps there is a man down coach?

[Surbiton_Shark]

Well...an entirely predictable performance - Akker limping off on a plastic pitch summed it up

Unusually poor game from AJ - we seemed to throw away a losing BP

We may as well use this season just to work out who stays/goes. Prob worth giving RDP a go at in the centres - Sam is just offering literally nothing with the way we're playing. RDP at least creates and Luke J deserves more game time.

Need to see if Wilkinson / Curtis / Reed are worth keeping by giving them game time. Be interesting to see how much we bother with Europe this season

We've got to keep the De Preez twins - those guys deserve medals.

Can't see us keeping Jono on either

[StalyShark]

Although he’s been a rock for us I think Jono is done and that might be because of the concussions unfortunately.

[dinogyro]

I was thinking the same myself about whether this season is lost, but didn't Quins have a fairly crappy pre-Christmas, then really nail it towards the end?

I think Euro games should be used as practice. Realistically we are not going anywhere there.

The Twins - have to keep them even if Rob is off. They are always trying to make ground.

[dinogyro]

Although he’s been a rock for us I think Jono is done and that might be because of the concussions unfortunately.

For his own safety, maybe it's time for Jono. But he really has given everything for the club. No one could doubt his commitment.

[Streatham Shark]

Well...an entirely predictable performance - Akker limping off on a plastic pitch summed it up

Unusually poor game from AJ - we seemed to throw away a losing BP

We may as well use this season just to work out who stays/goes. Prob worth giving RDP a go at in the centres - Sam is just offering literally nothing with the way we're playing. RDP at least creates and Luke J deserves more game time.

Need to see if Wilkinson / Curtis / Reed are worth keeping by giving them game time. Be interesting to see how much we bother with Europe this season

We've got to keep the De Preez twins - those guys deserve medals.

Can't see us keeping Jono on either

It's depressing that this is looking like yet another transitional year though. At the end of last season I thought we'd be top two contenders in thenprem and at least quarter finalists in Europe, instead we're already looking at next year and it's not even halfway through this season.

[DavenportSharky]

I’m amazed at the total negativity. I thought we showed far more intent than Saracens. Both DP twins were excellent. Rob DP did brilliantly for the Raffi try. Raffi wasn’t perfect but showed why he is such an exciting prospect. Both Curry twins worked their socks off. It was certainly one of our better performances on plastic. Akker injury looked bad but both Taylor and Langdon should be fit after our week off? Ironic that Jono wears a scrum cap and fails his HIA. Might not see him back. I thought Foley seemed to misinterpret most things in Saracens favour. Who knows a card for Saracens and AJ bouncing over from the crossbar and we might have won. We played away on plastic on a ground we find difficult to win on against the team in second with most of their international stars. We have not been murdered this season despite losing 5. The commentators don’t help because they are right up Sarries derrière. Sanderson’s dissatisfaction with the scrum cements the idea that Webber will be in next summer.

[Bucks1861]

Courtesy of the bbc. And I quote

“ Byron trains at UFC on his time off so maybe he just had a flashback of some sort of ultimate fighting session he's done. I haven't spoken to him.

"He's a great lad, one of the hardest workers. The emotion, the occasion, the fact we hadn't scored - I was feeling that too. It probably got the better of him.

"We've now got an invasion of London planned. We're in The Ship in Wandsworth to lick our wounds. Then we've got a rat race and the magical world of Winter Wonderland on Monday. Then it's a couple of days off and we're into prepping for Ospreys

[LJK]

Just watched the recorded game. Sale made Sarries work hard, but then so many times (as in the past) screwed it up in the 22 zone. Going the other way Sarries were much more efficient , like others we have played this season. The Curry and du Preez twins were so committed, but some of the others didn't look so.
Commentators reference was made again to Sanderson's famed 'mind gym' ...to me it is looking increasingly like management hokum, as it doesn't seem to be working. We are going backwards against many other sides who are improving as the season progresses. Can see us finishing in the bottom quarter of the table, rather then the top if this isn't turned around soon. The prediction in some of the press that we were favourites for the title (which seemed unlikely to me even then) look mad now.

[poyntonshark]

I’m amazed at the total negativity. I thought we showed far more intent than Saracens.

A cynic might interpret that as " Saracens scored 3 tries without really trying, Sale needed moments of individual quality to get their scores".

That wouldn't be entirely fair, but not that far off.

We did provide some decent build-up play, particularly in the second half, we seemed very lethargic in the first. When our combined off-loading game isn't firing, we seem very one-dimensional in attack, thi8s week wasn't helped by AJ having an unusually poor game.

[snaderson]

Re the pitch, at the SSSC Meet the Players event, they were asked what they thought of plastic pitches. Every one of them, including Schoenert, said we should get rid of them.

[stevene]

For me the sarries game can be summed up by the smart well drilled sarries team with a clear identity coming up against a side still searching for its post Diamond identity lacking in confidence and direction. For all the positive words and the blame heaped on Deacon and West ultimately that direction and cohesiveness needs to come from the DoR and the senior players.

Raffi is great but I continue to see the impact of us not having Faf in terms of that on field direction. For every criticism of his distribution or decision making the impetus he gives in both attack and defence was and has been obvious. That urgency when we get a penalty, when clearing the ball from the ruck or those rush defence big hits lift the team. In the absence of Faf (which we have had to deal with all season so far) the DoR needs to remedy and rectify this in terms of a game plan and motivation of the other senior players to drive through his absence. In fact who are the other senior players? Jono? Tbh he doesnt seem himself this season. S James? Ditto. AJM? Leaving and seems, from Axe's comments, like a tortured (failed) contract extension discussion.

Hopefully the likes of Lood and Tom Curry can step upto the plate in the next two months. Ben C is definitely leading albeit he isnt as vocal as Tom. Ben and JLDP are probably two senior players who always lead by example so far when they have played this season.

All doesnt seem right at the moment but then it often does when you can't string wins together. Big test of Axe, the coaches and the squad in the next 8 weeks.

[wrinklieshark]

This in the Telegraph about the 'counter caterpillar', but I need someone to get it out from behind the paywall!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ew-tactic/

[dinogyro]

I don't think Lood's heart is in it for Sale anymore. I didn't particularly look out for him, but then he didn't seem to be making any standout moves.

Sorry, I can't help with the Telegraph paywall, I'm not a subscriber.

[Bronzbronx]

This in the Telegraph about the 'counter caterpillar', but I need someone to get it out from behind the paywall!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ew-tactic/

https://archive.md/InYmO

[DaveAitch]

The way, it seems to me, to limit caterpillar and counter caterpillar is to have it that a player has to be bound onto two others. There might have to be a proviso to the strict interpretation, but I don't see why something on those lines can't be looked at.