By DavenportSharky
#63433
Portugal playing some really entertaining heads up rugby. Am I losing the plot or did Portugal play once at Edgeley Park???
By FarnhamShark
#63437
We played a Portuguese club side in a European competition at Edgeley Park. They had the audacity to score the first try, but we ended up with 90 points on the board.
By FarnhamShark
#63438
FarnhamShark wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2023 7:44 pm
We played a Portuguese club side in a European competition at Edgeley Park. They had the audacity to score the first try, but we ended up with 90 points on the board.
Or were they Spanish?? Help!!
By pitprop
#63442
Both Spanish - Valladolid and El Salvador, both interesting away trips.
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By Lord Elpus
#63446
FarnhamShark wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2023 7:44 pm
We played a Portuguese club side in a European competition at Edgeley Park. They had the audacity to score the first try, but we ended up with 90 points on the board.
Spanish - Cetransa El Salvador. The whole squad photographed the scoreboard after their try following Sir Charles throwing an intercept pass.
Later we saw supersub Carlos Souto a fine specimenwho was spherical.
By Olyy
#63449
England looking possibly worse than ever, considering how poor this Japan side has been the last few years
By Olyy
#63452
A steaming pile of swearword

Earl the only player who can come out of it with his head held high, really
Lineout was an absolute mess, think we lost 6 including the two freekicks - Itoje had a very very poor game, probably the worst I've ever seen him play, don't know if him calling the lineouts is new or not but Japan had him sussed all game
By dinogyro
#63453
I think the final score flattered England a bit. Anyway, not a loss and a bit of attacking towards the end.

Strange game for me as the team of my birth and home plays the team of my ancestors. I didn't really mind who won.
Olyy, DavenportSharky liked this
By RinTin
#63455
All I'm looking at are the facts that we scored 4 tries for a bonus point and conceded none. Everything else in that game should never be viewed again unless it is to demonstrate how not to attack, unless of course your throw Marcus Smith on with free reign and 15 minutes on the clock.

Earl very good, Lawes, Steward and Daly solid. Chessum and Itoje anonymous, Ludlum disappointing, but Billy didn't exactly do anything when he came on.

Ford had clear instructions to distribute and kick. This was shown in the second half when he was so reluctant to take a gap in the Japan 22. He took it, but his hesitation was clear and it cost England a likely try.

Group effectively sealed. We move on.
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By poyntonshark
#63457
I doubt that too many will like to admit it, and I count myself amongst the number who loudly decried Mitchell's initial non-selection. But, Mitchell's decision making was consistently appalling and he laboured to shovel out slow ball. England were much better for Youngs taking the field. Much more level headed in his decisions and quicker to make them. He also provided decent quick ball, which coincided with England's usual ploy of actually playing some rugby in the final 10 minutes. I'm not entirely convinced by Marcus, but there is no denying he added energy to the back line, and I particularly enjoyed him inviting a would be tackler to have a sit down for a while.
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By Lord Elpus
#63459
England lack pace in both thought and deed unless Smith plays. Manu gums up the backline and no longer makes notable busts - and even if he did the support will be too slow to prevent a turnover. Johnny May is now a liability.

However we should celebrate Jones's ex-convicts & Fijians being turned over by 23 Fijians.
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By Yareet
#63462
In the warmup games, three of the criticisms of England were and inability to score tries, ill discipline and a leaky defence. May coaches talk about fixing the defence first and being hard to beat before layering on attack.

Having played two of the more fancied teams in our pool, we've conceded 1 try, 13 penalties and scored 61 points to 22 conceded.

We're behind where we'd like to be but there is definite progress. Not yet enough to beat IRE/SA/NZ/FRA but progress. And certainly enough to get out of our pool. Potentially enough to beat WAL/AUS/FIJ.
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By ale shark
#63464
Sorry RinTin but Daly was crap, long sweeping runs that go nowhere other than ending up with an aimless kick. That’s all he’s offered for years.

Him a May have 19 years and +130 international caps between them. They’re the two least threatening pair of wingers I’ve seen so far in 2023. Absolutely atrocious state of affairs.
Olyy, P51b, DavenportSharky liked this
By Olyy
#63465
Main think I remember Daly doing was breaking down the wing and getting chased down and tackled into touch by a tighthead lock
RinTin liked this
By RinTin
#63466
He was solid in the air, good in defence and actually spread the ball in the second half at times. I will concede one of his second half kicks wound me up no end (Ugo Monye almost went full Brian Moore in commentary), but his first half kicking was clearly the Wigglesworth game plan. Likely tactic was simply to get the ball behind Japan and play territory.

As i say solid imo.

I can't understand calls for Youngs to start. Short memories everywhere it seems. Give Mitchell Chile and hopefully confidence can come back.

By Olyy
#63467
Tbf to Youngs getting dropped normally sparks some life back into him - I wouldn't bet my mortgage on it though
I'd go for Care vs Chile, with Mitchell on the bench
Mitchell was bad yesterday - some of it was down to gameplan but some was just general poor play, especially getting the ball away from the scrum and maul - like when we had a massive maul up the pitch, he takes forever getting the ball to pass out so the Japanese defence are right up on Manu and Marchant but instead of changing his pass or running himself he just still passes right into the mess of players, Japan go 50m and almost score from it
By RinTin
#63468
Olyy wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:58 am
getting the ball away from the scrum and maul
This was infuriating. Scrum's as well when the 8 would pick, give to Mitchell who would then run and pass to Manu exactly as the defence hit him. Baffling tactic and one they used multiple times.
By DavenportSharky
#63470
I don’t see any dramatic improvement and we continue to see the reward for an inexperienced conservative coaching team appointed too near to this tournament. England have gone backwards while Ireland, France and Scotland have gone from strength to strength playing with pride, invention, intelligence and flair. Too many of that squad are past their best and several past their use by date. I guess we will see Bevan, Smith, Arundell etc. against Chile alongside the time expired Farrell. It will be back to the same lineup as recently used when we play Samoa. Thanks to the ridiculous draw, we will reach the quarterfinals and probably the semifinals but if we reach the final it will be a greater shock than Japan beating South Africa. We don’t deserve to do well in this competition and it will be terrible for the sport of rugby union if we do.
Lord Elpus, P51b liked this
By SimonG
#63472
DavenportSharky wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:05 pm
I don’t see any dramatic improvement and we continue to see the reward for an inexperienced conservative coaching team appointed too near to this tournament. England have gone backwards while Ireland, France and Scotland have gone from strength to strength playing with pride, invention, intelligence and flair. Too many of that squad are past their best and several past their use by date. I guess we will see Bevan, Smith, Arundell etc. against Chile alongside the time expired Farrell. It will be back to the same lineup as recently used when we play Samoa. Thanks to the ridiculous draw, we will reach the quarterfinals and probably the semifinals but if we reach the final it will be a greater shock than Japan beating South Africa. We don’t deserve to do well in this competition and it will be terrible for the sport of rugby union if we do.
I totally agree. Due to the draw we were always going to be good enough to make the quarter-finals and most likely the semis which will be seen as success by the gin-drinkers at HQ so nothing will change and we will continue to bore the planet with our brand of rugby.

Anyone any idea how you become Fijian?
User avatar
By Yareet
#63473
SimonG wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:30 pm
DavenportSharky wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:05 pm
I don’t see any dramatic improvement and we continue to see the reward for an inexperienced conservative coaching team appointed too near to this tournament. England have gone backwards while Ireland, France and Scotland have gone from strength to strength playing with pride, invention, intelligence and flair. Too many of that squad are past their best and several past their use by date. I guess we will see Bevan, Smith, Arundell etc. against Chile alongside the time expired Farrell. It will be back to the same lineup as recently used when we play Samoa. Thanks to the ridiculous draw, we will reach the quarterfinals and probably the semifinals but if we reach the final it will be a greater shock than Japan beating South Africa. We don’t deserve to do well in this competition and it will be terrible for the sport of rugby union if we do.
I totally agree. Due to the draw we were always going to be good enough to make the quarter-finals and most likely the semis which will be seen as success by the gin-drinkers at HQ so nothing will change and we will continue to bore the planet with our brand of rugby.

Anyone any idea how you become Fijian?
Whilst that may be true, there were many who felt after the warm up games that we would struggle to get out of the group. Instead we are P2 W2, will be in the quarters unless we lose both of our next two games and (Tom's questionable red aside) have much improved discipline.

I prefer to be glass half-full.
ageinghoody, ledzepsfr liked this
By SimonG
#63476
Yareet wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:39 pm
SimonG wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:30 pm
DavenportSharky wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:05 pm
I don’t see any dramatic improvement and we continue to see the reward for an inexperienced conservative coaching team appointed too near to this tournament. England have gone backwards while Ireland, France and Scotland have gone from strength to strength playing with pride, invention, intelligence and flair. Too many of that squad are past their best and several past their use by date. I guess we will see Bevan, Smith, Arundell etc. against Chile alongside the time expired Farrell. It will be back to the same lineup as recently used when we play Samoa. Thanks to the ridiculous draw, we will reach the quarterfinals and probably the semifinals but if we reach the final it will be a greater shock than Japan beating South Africa. We don’t deserve to do well in this competition and it will be terrible for the sport of rugby union if we do.
I totally agree. Due to the draw we were always going to be good enough to make the quarter-finals and most likely the semis which will be seen as success by the gin-drinkers at HQ so nothing will change and we will continue to bore the planet with our brand of rugby.

Anyone any idea how you become Fijian?
Whilst that may be true, there were many who felt after the warm up games that we would struggle to get out of the group. Instead we are P2 W2, will be in the quarters unless we lose both of our next two games and (Tom's questionable red aside) have much improved discipline.

I prefer to be glass half-full.
My glass must have been half-full as well then because as I said I always thought QF was a given and SF a probability. Of course the glass needs to be emptied (several times) to make watching the rubbish we are playing anything like a joyful experience!
By SimonG
#63478
SSR wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:14 pm
You need to get a bigger glass.
To watch England? I agree!
By ageinghoody
#63479
Just a thought if I may.

I haven't seen the game, currently being in a campervan with minimal internet access, but all the reports I've read by professionals appear to disagree profoundly with what's being said on here.

Just one example, on the Beeb website Matt Dawson is quite complimentary about Mitchell's performance.

Of course, that might just be the scrum-halves union talking.
By RinTin
#63482
ageinghoody wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:07 pm
Just a thought if I may.

I haven't seen the game, currently being in a campervan with minimal internet access, but all the reports I've read by professionals appear to disagree profoundly with what's being said on here.

Just one example, on the Beeb website Matt Dawson is quite complimentary about Mitchell's performance.

Of course, that might just be the scrum-halves union talking.
A quick Google of 'England Player Ratings' shows most outlets didn't think much of the performance.

Dawson seems to be focusing on the second half performance, but also compares it to SB's other games in charge. Compared to those yes, it looks good.

The public comments beneath the article seem to believe he was either watching another game or smoking something...
Olyy liked this
By Olyy
#63535


A rare sighting of the lesser spotted Bevan Rodd!
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#63556
Stupid to play him v Namibia.

Exactly why we shouldn't play Ford v Chile.

Fwiw I'd have had Arundell at fb, Smith 10, Farrell 12, Lawrence 13,
Last edited by Lord Elpus on Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
By RinTin
#63557
It was a pretty terrible tackle from Deysel. Deserved red card. He isn't going to be a popular man when he returns to Colomier in a few weeks....

As much as I'm not a French fan this loss is terrible for the tournament. Dupont is box office and last night he was once again on fire.
By SimonG
#63559
Lord Elpus wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:05 am
Stupid to play him v Namibia.

Exactly why we shouldn't play Ford v Chile.

Fwiw I'd have had Arundell at fb, Smith 10, Farrell 12, Lawrence 13,
Sadly I suspect Borthwick will be more of a threat to Ford's playing chances in the latter stages of the competition than any opponent.
By ale shark
#63560
SimonG wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:20 am
Lord Elpus wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:05 am
Stupid to play him v Namibia.

Exactly why we shouldn't play Ford v Chile.

Fwiw I'd have had Arundell at fb, Smith 10, Farrell 12, Lawrence 13,
Sadly I suspect Borthwick will be more of a threat to Ford's playing chances in the latter stages of the competition than any opponent.
You’re probably right, Borthwick anointed Farrell as team captain for the rest of the tournament yesterday.
By Olyy
#63582
Three scrum penalties and the BP try
Not a bad half for Big Bad Bev!
By Olyy
#63585
No point having 7 forwards on the bench if you've not got a consistent kicker to take advantage of penalties, or a consistent lineout thrower to come on
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By poyntonshark
#63588
Absolutely, much better to have Irelands consistently not straight and not get pinged, than to get pinged for your first not straight.

It feels wrong to criticise a ref for getting a call right, but seriously I don't think Ireland threw a straight one.
By RinTin
#63596
All home Nations putting in a strong showing. Scotland still need something special to progress, and England Fiji quarter more or less confirmed now.

Ireland South Africa on Saturday night was one of the best, most engrossing games of rugby i have watched in a long time, while Wales' demolition of Australia shows they will almost certainly be favourites vs Argentina and should make another WC semi final.

Shout out to Big Bev echoed. Really strong game.
Last edited by RinTin on Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
By Olyy
#63597
Argentina have looked really poor this tournament, hopefully they've got a big game in them vs Wales but I doubt it
By eBike
#63598
A mention for Mike Forshaw after last night's demolition of Australia. Wales' defence was brutally effective in neutralising the big ball carriers. "Tidy !"
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By Yareet
#63599
eBike wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:05 am
A mention for Mike Forshaw after last night's demolition of Australia. Wales' defence was brutally effective in neutralising the big ball carriers. "Tidy !"
Welsh teammate of mine was raving about what Gatland had done for the defence :angry:
By SimonG
#63601
It's quite an achievement for one man to totally ruin two countries chances at the same RWC so take a bow Eddie Jones!
ale shark, RinTin, Elgar liked this
By RuggerPleb
#63605
RinTin wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:29 am
All home Nations putting in a strong showing. Scotland still need something special to progress, and England Fiji quarter more or less confirmed now.
Indeed - it's looking like the four group winners will be France, Ireland, Wales and England, with Scotland being unlucky with the very hard draw (they could have gone through with Wales or England) and even Italy still having a chance if they can shock NZ. Those four teams are also favourites to be the 4 semi finalists.

Remarkable when you consider how dominant the south was a few years ago.
RinTin liked this
By RuggerPleb
#63606
Olyy wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:33 am
Argentina have looked really poor this tournament, hopefully they've got a big game in them vs Wales but I doubt it
It's actually looking quite interesting with all 3 teams isn't it - Samoa, Japan, Argentina - for the quarters? Might be good to have Creevy back sooner?
User avatar
By Major Bloodnok
#63657
So can someone explain the fundamental difference between the Japan 2's challenge and Tom's? Apart from the speed that the opponent was travelling...
By RinTin
#63674
Major Bloodnok wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:07 pm
So can someone explain the fundamental difference between the Japan 2's challenge and Tom's? Apart from the speed that the opponent was travelling...
You could be waiting a long time for an answer there Major....

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