[Olyy]

Very bleak, can see why they didn't apply for promotion last season

Rugby in this country is in a right state


Edit: Now confirmed
https://www.jerseyreds.je/news_article/ ... g-trading/

Without wanting to jump the gun/be too morbid, I wonder if we could offer Rob Webber a deal to come in as forwards/lineout coach?

[Bucks1861]

Very sad indeed. Although I never understood how a tiny island could support such a venture.

Yep you’re spot on. The RFU need to start to recognise there is an existential crisis and act accordingly. Not move the deckchairs. Again.

I read over the weekend the state of Australian rugby union v league / Aussie rules. Currently union generates c 10% of Aussie rules revenue and it was speculated that Union may have to become an amateur sport. Just wow.

[DavenportSharky]

Very sad and very worrying. Particularly as playing wise they had reached their pinnacle.

[Lord Elpus]

Perhaps Rob Webber will be looking for a job.

[ledzepsfr]

Although it is sad with the demise of Jersey Reds, hot on the heels of London Irish, Nomad Wasps and Worcester Warriors, I fail to see how RFU need to do more. Let us not lose sight that Rugby clubs are a business. As with any business, shareholders are the financiers.

I am not suggesting that these, or any club, has been mismanaged or poorly run. Covid years accounted for direct loss of income while staff still required to be paid. Following on, 'punters' are subjected to a) price hikes to watch their rugby, fuel and transport costs and b) increases in the cost of living.

Although it is sad that clubs go out of business, it is not new and it is not the end. Other clubs will join the demise. Professional sport is money driven, but the cash cow is only so big.

[Olyy]

Whilst I do think the RFU is a mess and needs a good clearout of the old farts to bring the sport into the 21st century, as above, there's not much they can do when these are private companies - are they meant to bail them out? The RFU is losing money hand over fist as it is they literally cannot afford to do that

People complained (rightfully) about the RFU allowing dodgy owners like the ones at Worcester - they then significantly strengthened the process for owners of clubs....and then people lost their minds when the dodgy American investors didn't materialise for Irish as a result of these new processes

The sad reality is there is not much money in the sport at all, and clubs are spending way above their means to become/remain competitive at the level they're at/level they want to be at. There's also not the interest in the sport to generate the money (this part can be put at the feet of the RFU, who do a poor job advertising the sport).
One of the championship games last season had an attendance of 258 - would that have even covered the hot water bill for the showers after the game, let alone ground costs, wages, insurance etc.?

I think Ealing won't be far off, they're spending money at a crazy rate and their owner's Daughter has said she's no interest in running the club - when he passes away I think the club will go under, or at least scale back massively from where they're at at the moment

[AndaleManito]

At the end of the day, players (and coaches/DORs/managers) are paid too much. The money just isn't there to sustain it, and at some point it will come crashing down unless something is done.

I totally understand that players are effectively sacrificing their health to play the game (a distinct but very much related issue), but IMO people don't get paid what they "deserve" - think about nurses, soldiers, bricklayers, social workers, teachers etc. Why are rugby players somehow special?

I don't blame the players at all, they hardly pay themselves, and no one is going to turn down money on offer, but the players and the coaches are paid at a rate the sport can't sustain without wealthy owners who can pull the plug at any moment.

Ultimately though, as a player, I would be wanting to milk the game for all its got knowing the almost certain impact it will have on my health and ability to enjoy retirement - and I think that's one of the root causes of the increasing salaries - who wants to ruin their body for less than a superstar salary?

I don't really see any easy fixes to be honest, the game has changed so much since it was invented, and there just isn't the audience to pay both fair and sustainable salaries.

[Yareet]

At the end of the day, players (and coaches/DORs/managers) are paid too much. The money just isn't there to sustain it, and at some point it will come crashing down unless something is done.

I totally understand that players are effectively sacrificing their health to play the game (a distinct but very much related issue), but IMO people don't get paid what they "deserve" - think about nurses, soldiers, bricklayers, social workers, teachers etc. Why are rugby players somehow special?

I don't blame the players at all, they hardly pay themselves, and no one is going to turn down money on offer, but the players and the coaches are paid at a rate the sport can't sustain without wealthy owners who can pull the plug at any moment.

Ultimately though, as a player, I would be wanting to milk the game for all its got knowing the almost certain impact it will have on my health and ability to enjoy retirement - and I think that's one of the root causes of the increasing salaries - who wants to ruin their body for less than a superstar salary?

I don't really see any easy fixes to be honest, the game has changed so much since it was invented, and there just isn't the audience to pay both fair and sustainable salaries.

Completely agree. Most builders seem to finish their career with a broken body but to your point, nobody suggests they should get more for doing so.

Some of the current crop of England pros seem to have a skewed view of what a rugby player should be paid. They appear to look at T14 (and Japan) salaries and assume that is the market rate. They're not asking to be paid the same as Drua players or even Welsh/NZ/SA players.

[Olyy]

[SimonG]

I'm afraid Mr Webber comes across as very naïve.

Anyone taking up employment with a professional rugby club in England (or Jersey) must surely know that their future is entirely dependent on one or two financial backers whose investment could end at any time. I doubt there is a single professional rugby club that is financially secure.

[PappjeShark]

The RFU has cut the funding for Championship clubs from £500k to £150k a year hasn’t it just? Which has a direct bearing on financial viability. Having rules which make no financial sense, of the sort which saw Jersey not even contemplate taking up promotion, are also indicative of a governing body asleep at the wheel.

It’s wider than the RFU though. I’ve seen various people highlighting how the NFL and NBA market themselves and how they embrace fans and social media. Whereas post a clip from the RWC and it’s disabled within no time.

[The Back Row]

Some very brief thoughts rom someone who works in finance and corporate strategy circles. (Its a stream of consciousness, not a well crafted piece - take it in that spirit)

1 - Chasing promotion, at unsustainable levels, recruiting above means and continuing to do so when promotion is suspended for the short term (at least), and not being able to sustain is not a blameless accident on behalf of those who ran Jersey Reds.

There was no way the level of players they were recruiting would be sustainable given any drop in income, let alone the sharp reduction in funding referenced above.

Players have been recruited and handed contracts that were never going to be delivered.

I would think that there may be a real case for Directors knowingly trading the organisation into insolvency.

2 - The comparison of Sweeney's salary to the funding is a complete false equivalence.

Sweeney has been disaster, no argument. Way worse than the Championship clubs funding, the CVC revenue share deals for the Premiership an Six Nations is an obvious disaster. Now whilst he does not control either, he has influence and these killer blows have happened on his watch. Rugby will not exist in its current form in a few years, and I fear Sale will have no place to play as we know it.

There is no doubt that he has to go. But he will have to be replaced. To get someone good, at the peak of their powers will cost. A lot.

That new person will also be completely hamstrung by an archaic governance model. I wont go into detail, as only weirdos like me find this fascinating. It is. But no one wants to hear it.

In summary , Sweeney must go, it will cost a lot to replace him, but that person will be fighting with hands tied behind their backs.

There will be no money to distribute to championship clubs from getting rid of Sweeney.

3 - The Premierships decision to go to 10 clubs is an unmitigated disaster. Not least because it kills off promotion and relegation. This is a root cause of Jersey's demise. This selfish and stupid call kills the model.

The model of Prem rugby is dead in the water with the CVC deal, Nothing can save it. Clubs have pissed away the money.

But even without this moving to fewer games, charging fans for the full season (Yes YOU Sale Sharks... 9 home games in the league the same as 12 - piss off. I see you. One free semi final ticket versus a 3 game reduction in perpetuity... no chance! Shocking), having a two month break mid season. Utterly disastrous,

But this was a conscious decision, and was made with full awareness that it was going to kill the Championship.



So whilst we all weep at Jersey's demise... remember Jersey, The Premiership, and by extension Sale Sharks, are all complicit .

Rugby as we know it is f*cked.

[DavenportSharky]

Wow. I was feeling great watching the Ryder Cup from the sofa drinking Earl Grey and eating stollen bites. I now feel like jumping off Stockport viaduct.
Would you like a reference for the Sweeney job?
There are some seriously rich people behind the Premiership clubs and you would think that some form of professional game will survive in England or within the British Isles.

[SimonG]

Wow. I was feeling great watching the Ryder Cup from the sofa drinking Earl Grey and eating stollen bites. I now feel like jumping off Stockport viaduct.
Would you like a reference for the Sweeney job?
There are some seriously rich people behind the Premiership clubs and you would think that some form of professional game will survive in England or within the British Isles.

You are certainly correct that there are some seriously rich people behind the Premiership clubs but that's not the issue. The problem is what happens when they can for whatever reason no longer fund the clubs? As London Irish discovered there are very few (if any) people willing to take over the funding of a Premiership club. And why would anyone want to?

TBR's one line summary is correct in respect of professional rugby in this country.

[The Back Row]

I agree that SOME form of professional rugby will survive. But I don't think that a viable premiership style competition will.

We have gone to 10 teams, and we know that with 1/3 of the TV cash going to CVC, and loss of three home games a year, that more teams will follow Irish, Wuss and Wasps.

Theres an assumption that the fans of Six nations and the Premiership are one and the same. That is not necessarily so, just like with football there are plenty of fans who watch internationals but not clubs, and plenty of club fans who (Like me) have zero interest in watching internationals. As more emphasis is put on internationals and the club game hibernating for long periods to avoid clashes, so the interest in the club game wanes.

In 12 months time another one or two clubs may have gone. These are desperate times for clubs. Why would rich people put in more finance when we are already in the death spiral. Rich people tend to be shrewd and can see what is happening.

I hope I and many many others are wrong, but rugby is rotting to the core...

[Olyy]

I saw a journalist on twitter say that there are two other clubs that are on the brink and could run into serious difficulties over the course of the season - they didn't name names though, and not sure if they meant just prem or Prem + champ

Ealing are in a rough spot - owner is pumping a ton of money into the club, but he's 87 and I read that his family have got no interest in running the club - unless he leaves his money to the club when he passes away they're gonna have to follow Pirates' lead in going semi pro or go under

[ledzepsfr]

Going forward to keep the game alive, professional and hopefully profitable, what about a merger with Premiership and URC? Two divisions with straight 2 up/2 down. No playoffs.

How Div 1 and Div 2 status is determined initially, I don't know. Thoughts?

[SimonG]

Going forward to keep the game alive, professional and hopefully profitable, what about a merger with Premiership and URC? Two divisions with straight 2 up/2 down. No playoffs.

How Div 1 and Div 2 status is determined initially, I don't know. Thoughts?

I can't believe the Irish (who seem to have got their game well organised) in particular wanting to go anywhere near the basket case that is the Premiership. And who can blame them?

[Halifaxshark]

Going forward to keep the game alive, professional and hopefully profitable, what about a merger with Premiership and URC? Two divisions with straight 2 up/2 down. No playoffs.

How Div 1 and Div 2 status is determined initially, I don't know. Thoughts?

I often wonder if this is the solution.

[The Back Row]

The Premiership, and its shareholders (The clubs with the Golden Tickets) are bound into a horrifically thought through CVC deal.

CVC would never sanction these clubs leaving the league to go join with the URC, who are not tied into giving away 1/3 of their income, without getting similar rev share agreements.

So lets assume the English clubs ould somehow join the URC, with the same income streams as the Irish, Scotttish and SA clubs... but before they even set fixtures the English contingent have to give away 1/3 of their key income to a third party with no benefit whatsover. The English clubs could never complete.

So neither CVC or The Premiership teams would agree.

So they are stuck. in a league with only 10 teams and a two month break in the middle of it, with rising costs, and flat revenues. We know somenoen else will go bust, and soon. Rugby cant sustain itself. When we go to a 9 or 8 team league, who the hell is going to pay to watch?

Its the end of days people, and nothing could make me more sad (In my Sale Sharks world anyway), but Rugby is fucked and no matter how much we love and enjoy our team, and those who help sustain it, there doesnt seem an obvious way out.....


But wait, Great news... Our best players will no longer be controlled by our clubs, but by England. So we have even fewer games on the promise of seeing our 'best' play in every match, only we wont because Borthwick decised to rest them.

[Bucks1861]

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rugby/ ... 10962.html


Umm

[SimonG]

.....

But wait, Great news... Our best players will no longer be controlled by our clubs, but by England. So we have even fewer games on the promise of seeing our 'best' play in every match, only we wont because Borthwick decised to rest them.

I can see it now. Sorry you are playing Leicester next week so you have to rest the following players .....

[The Back Row]

Although not quite the conspiracy theory like this, would you pay to watch a 'competitive' league, which is not a million miles away where:

You pay the same price for 8 home games as you did for 13 just a couple of years before;
You will go months between home games so we can all watch England bore the hell out of us in the six nations instead;
You get hammered every European game as the French teams have the ability to build squads;
When big games do come up you're at the behest of the England coach as to whether you can play your best players...

I genuinely believe the Premiership (as was a few years ago) to be a much more engaging product than international rugby. But it has been killed as a major competition by the CVC deal, is being made ridiculous by the drop in club numbers and is one financial disaster away from being unworkable, and is being downgraded for cash on the belief that were happy to put our excitement on hold whilst corporate boxes at HQ get filled in February.

[SimonG]

Although not quite the conspiracy theory like this, would you pay to watch a 'competitive' league, which is not a million miles away where:

You pay the same price for 8 home games as you did for 13 just a couple of years before;
You will go months between home games so we can all watch England bore the hell out of us in the six nations instead;
You get hammered every European game as the French teams have the ability to build squads;
When big games do come up you're at the behest of the England coach as to whether you can play your best players...

I genuinely believe the Premiership (as was a few years ago) to be a much more engaging product than international rugby. But it has been killed as a major competition by the CVC deal, is being made ridiculous by the drop in club numbers and is one financial disaster away from being unworkable, and is being downgraded for cash on the belief that were happy to put our excitement on hold whilst corporate boxes at HQ get filled in February.

Nope I wouldn't pay to watch that.

Then again I stopped paying to watch Premiership rugby when it emerged that those running it had turned a blind eye to years of cheating by Saracens and when that club were allowed to keep the trophies they won by cheating and those who organised the cheating were allowed to continue in place.

So further penalising those supporting a corrupt league have wouldn't affect me but I'm sure it will others.

[Bronzbronx]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67236984

RW has joined Chicago Hounds as forward coach