[poyntonshark]

It's a bit superficial to automatically blame the 10 for lack of fluidity, England made 24 handling errors, how do you expect them to be fluid. The other basic similarity between England and Sale is that the centres aren't good enough. Dingwall deserves more time to see if he can come up to test standard, but attacking wise he showed little in his two games. I thought Lawrence was going to be the real deal, but he hasn't done it yet and was absolutely awful this weekend. Perhaps EJ was right about him. Henry Slade may have been Exeterised, remember they made Sam Hill look good.

Do any of the other 10's you mentioned have capped internationals as their back-up? Ford hasn't shown good form for Sale so far this season, but in that England side he has been fine. Fin Smith may deserve a start, but I suspect he will disappear when Marcus is fully fit. Mind you, Borthwick surprised me with full back selection this week, I look forward to more such surprises.

After a good moan about problems, I do believe England are heading the right way. For the most part, the intent is good. The sooner they get in line with the new defence coach the better, as no doubt that is taking priority over attacking matters, although the lines and timing for Furbanks try were excellent.

[Lord Elpus]

Like Sale England's pack lacks power particularly in the red zone. The pen. to go 10-0 up should have gone to the corner for the driving maul if we had a decent one. For France I'd bite Borthwick's bullet and call up Mercer and start Martin at 6 with Earl or Underhill 7.

With Ford at 10 you need tackling centres as the oppos will always look at running at him. I've had enough of Slade and I'd move Daly to 13, Manu 12 with F-W on one wing.

Re Ford - since his injury his punting to touch is quite short and he's lost the spiral bomb.

[RinTin]

It's a bit superficial to automatically blame the 10 for lack of fluidity, England made 24 handling errors, how do you expect them to be fluid. The other basic similarity between England and Sale is that the centres aren't good enough. Dingwall deserves more time to see if he can come up to test standard, but attacking wise he showed little in his two games. I thought Lawrence was going to be the real deal, but he hasn't done it yet and was absolutely awful this weekend. Perhaps EJ was right about him. Henry Slade may have been Exeterised, remember they made Sam Hill look good.

Do any of the other 10's you mentioned have capped internationals as their back-up? Ford hasn't shown good form for Sale so far this season, but in that England side he has been fine. Fin Smith may deserve a start, but I suspect he will disappear when Marcus is fully fit. Mind you, Borthwick surprised me with full back selection this week, I look forward to more such surprises.

After a good moan about problems, I do believe England are heading the right way. For the most part, the intent is good. The sooner they get in line with the new defence coach the better, as no doubt that is taking priority over attacking matters, although the lines and timing for Furbanks try were excellent.

I haven't automatically blamed the 10 - I mentioned all 3 games where it hasn't worked. These games involved personnel changes at 9, 12 and 15. Still no real success in terms of threatening attack (bar set move for Furbank), with Ford the playmaker in all games. Our pack has been solid in each case and has given a good platform.

The club vs country form is always odd. Slade has been deserving of a recall based on tremendous form for Chiefs, but poor for England. Freeman and Furbank have been outstanding for Saints this year, so has Care for Quins, Lawrence at Bath and Mitchell at Saints. It just doesn't seem to translate. Only men I see replicating club form are George, Cole, Maro and Earl.

I agree I think we are moving in the right direction. We have just reset following a world cup with a new captain, new young players, new coaching team, new defensive structure (which I believe no player uses for club). It will take time and there will be difficulties.

[Yareet]

Like Sale England's pack lacks power particularly in the red zone. The pen. to go 10-0 up should have gone to the corner for the driving maul if we had a decent one. For France I'd bite Borthwick's bullet and call up Mercer and start Martin at 6 with Earl or Underhill 7.

With Ford at 10 you need tackling centres as the oppos will always look at running at him. I've had enough of Slade and I'd move Daly to 13, Manu 12 with F-W on one wing.

Re Ford - since his injury his punting to touch is quite short and he's lost the spiral bomb.

There's a few power players across the starting 8 and subs Martin, CCS, Roots, Genge, even Earl (see his try v Wales).

[RinTin]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/nothing- ... s-ireland/

Manu article in Rugbypass.

This is the definition of over hyping someone. I want to see him in that 12 shirt for England, but he just needs to be left alone.

[RinTin]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/757e ... 05f7e75a3f

Stuart Barnes deciding to pull a Clive Woodward with his proposed team for Ireland.

[SSR]

Possibly swap CC-S for Mercer ( to be politic ) and may actually work.

[poyntonshark]

Stuart trying to be relevant again? Ben Earl might be able to pull it off because he is a good player, but that doesn't stop it being a stupid idea. Mauro Bergamasco was a good player.

I notice all of those chosen sides still have Lawrence in them, which I don't particularly mind, as he is obviously considerably better than he showed last week (even if he has rarely shown Test level ability). I can't help but feel that that performance pretty well guaranteed Manu a start this week though.

[Olyy]

Edit: Supposedly Ben is injured not dropped

LCD, George and Manu all keep their spots in the squad for the training camp this week

[DavenportSharky]

“The Northampton Saints back-row forward Tom Pearson, another who played for England A on Sunday, is promoted to the main squad in place of Ben Curry, from Sale Sharks. Curry picked up a chest injury in training last week “

From the Times today

[SSR]

No Curries, expect there to be a constipated performance ?

[poyntonshark]

[Clutch]

Not just centres. It’s the back 3 too.

No one has mentioned the real obvious issue. Wiggy is not an international level backs coach. Tigers won the league with Their mega pack and Ford pulling strings. They haven’t looked an especially well drilled backline.

Barkley did some analysis on our backline. It’s not good viewing for Wiggy.

[Yareet]

George stays at 10 for the men's game. No further Sale involvement.

6 changes in the 23

Feyi-Waboso swaps with Daly
Mitchell for Care
Martin (at 4) for Roots (Chessum at 6)
Dombrandt for Martin
Care for Spencer
M Smith for F Smith

[RinTin]

Smith vs Ford debate - who starts next week?

Smith came on and got the drop goal yes (and the plaudits), but when Ford left the field we were leading with 3 tries scored. If Ford's goal kicking was more reliable I don't think this would even be a debate given how well we were actually playing as a unit pre Smith coming on. Our backline was actually clicking.

I would be happy for Ford to remain. Smith offers a lot from the bench.

[Olyy]

Smith definitely,

Though I don't think he looked fully fit - noticed him running a bit gingerly at points, so they might not want to risk re-injury

[Surbiton_Shark]

Smith needs to start - needs to given the reins at 10 to work out if he's the future main 10 for the next World Cup. - Ford on the bench (for me anyhow!)

[ale shark]

Ford for continuity in the France game. Smith should be given a starting run after that.

[ledzepsfr]

Ford should start, but pass over kicking to someone else.

[poyntonshark]

If you read the BBC reports then Smith was the sole reason that England won. I was a little surprised that he didn't come on earlier as the way England were playing suited him for a change. Although, much of that was down to Ford being excellent ball in hand. His goal kicking has become a problem, it's not like he's missing everything, but 2/3 misses at test level can be crucial. This week his kicking from hand wasn't at it's usual level either. To be honest I'm much more interested to see how Fin Smith goes than Marcus, but that isn't going to happen against France (barring injury). I'd be surprised if much at all changed with respect to the starting line-up.

The perceived wisdom when a goal kicker is out of form is to persist, let them work through it. But, no one gets time at test level, and George's dip, though hardly catastrophic, has lasted pretty much his whole season. Assuming same starting line up are there any other regular goal kickers?. Does Slade still kick?

[SSR]

Slade has kicked pretty well for Exeter when I have seen them play.
Might as well let him kick for England when he plays, he does little else apart from
jump out of the line, miss tackles and jog back slowly ( not a fan ).
Furbank kicks for goal when needed at Saints does he not ?

[Lord Elpus]

FW and CCS out of France game.

[RinTin]

FW and CCS out of France game.

So Daly to wing, Steward to bench perhaps? Freeman and Daly cover centres, Steward covers wing and FB.

Roots onto bench along side Dombrant.

Ben not in the squad so can't be called up in CCS place, and highly unlikely Roebuck will get his first cap starting vs France. Baptism of fire comes to mind.

[Olyy]

Wouldn't be overly surprised to see Tuilagi in the 23 shirt - between him and Steward I reckon

Daly back to the wing feels like an inevitability

Pepper was called up to replace CCS, but imagine Roots or maybe even Ewels will take the 19 shirt

[RinTin]

Wouldn't be overly surprised to see Tuilagi in the 23 shirt - between him and Steward I reckon

Daly back to the wing feels like an inevitability

Pepper was called up to replace CCS, but imagine Roots or maybe even Ewels will take the 19 shirt

I would love to see Manu play 1 more time for England in truth. No versatility there, but Smith, Freeman and Daly are all fullback options so it could work.

One last dance Manu come on - comes on in the 60th minute, smashes his nephew, then powers over from 5m out for the bonus point win. It's meant to be.

[Yareet]

FW and CCS out of France game.

Hadn’t realised that Fraser Waters was still knocking around. Must be getting on a bit by now.

[RinTin]

England: Furbank; Freeman, Slade, Lawrence, Daly; Ford, Mitchell; Genge, George (capt), Cole, Itoje, Martin, Chessum, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: Dan, Marler, Stuart, Roots, Dombrandt, Care, M Smith, Tuilagi.

Manu indeed makes the bench.

[Beardedshark]

20 mins, 1 try, 1 season ending injury.

[Flumpty]

20 mins, 1 try, 1 season ending injury.

On with 10 mins to go.
Get's the ball on the burst on the French 22.
Hamstring goes short of the line
Season ending injury

[dinogyro]

Manu can make it through the England game.

It's our next game he injures himself, never to be seen again...

[SimonG]

Thank goodness Daly is back.

(I just wanted to post something totally unique on rugby message boards!)

[Beardedshark]

5 words I never thought I would see used together

[HerefordShark]

Manu didn't get much of a chance to do anything tonight (1 carry maybe), but George was absolutely outstanding all match. I thought he was excellent last week too, so hopefully he can bring that form back into the Premiership for us.

[Olyy]

Yeah, Ford was class and his kicking was spot on

Feel like the bench broke the rhythm - Roots, Dombrandt and Care all lacked impact entirely and, as you said, Manu only saw the ball once

Hopefully this summer we can bring through the likes of Pepper/Pearson and Barbeary - if Raffi can find some form and not get injured in the run in then he'll walk into the bench spot

[LJK]

Interesting that Ford seemed to be leading the huddle discussions rather than George or later Itoje as captains. That continued after the game too when the squad circled for the sign off. All the talk of how influential he is with players at Sale, even when he was injured, obviously carries into the England squad too. Yes, lets hope his confidence is high when he he is back up here, and lets hope Manu is itching to play some rugby after so little involvement in the 6N

[Surbiton_Shark]

Really enjoyed the game - thought we did well - great to see Ford playing in the line and using attack more than defence - if he deploys that at Sale then maybe we can turn it around.

Should have Ben Curry and Manu both back in action for Bath (fingers crossed)

Thought that last pen against us was extremely harsh

[RinTin]

Really enjoyed the game - thought we did well - great to see Ford playing in the line and using attack more than defence - if he deploys that at Sale then maybe we can turn it around.

Should have Ben Curry and Manu both back in action for Bath (fingers crossed)

Thought that last pen against us was extremely harsh

It was harsh, but mainly because it's something everyone does and gets away with. It's a bit like feeding at the scrum - against the rules of the game, but everyone does it. Harsh to ping it.