[Yareet]

Congrats to:

LCD
Both Currys
Roebuck

Fordy, Raffi and Bev mentioned in dispatches


Means we’ll be without those players for Bath who will be missing:

Ewels
Stuart
Underhill
Lawrence
Spencer

[DavenportSharky]

ENGLAND'S 36-PLAYER SQAUD
FORWARDS
Fin Baxter (Harlequins, 2 caps)
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 23 caps)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 115 caps)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale Sharks, 41 caps)
Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins, 7 caps)
Ben Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 53 caps)
Theo Dan (Saracens, 14 caps)
Trevor Davison (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 17 caps)
Ben Earl (Saracens, 33 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 31 caps)  
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 62 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 93 caps)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 11 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 84 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 95 caps)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 15 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 41 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 38 caps)
BACKS
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 69 caps)
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs, 6 caps)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 27 caps)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens, 5 caps)
Luke Northmore (Harlequins, 2 caps)
Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 7 caps)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks, 1 cap)  
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 65 caps)
Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 35 caps)
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby, 6 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 34 caps)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 14 caps)
Rehabilitation: George Ford (Sale Sharks)
Not considered for selection: Alex Coles (Northampton Saints), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints), Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints), Will Muir (Bath Rugby), Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby), Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks), Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks).  

[Alex]

Well done to all the players included, good job we're stacked in the backrow but losing 2 Curry's is a blow!

[DavenportSharky]

So no Joe Carpenter. Hope TT is back as our hooker situation will be seriously tested otherwise. Can manage in the back row.

[Olyy]

Congrats to all - some headscratchers in there, but when aren't there?

No Currys, LCD or Rodd means our breakdown threat is severely hampered

[RinTin]

Congrats to all - some headscratchers in there, but when aren't there?

No Currys, LCD or Rodd means our breakdown threat is severely hampered

We haven't had Currys and Rodd numerous times in the last 12 months so I'm not that worried. Turnovers/ breakdown threats have been limited for us most of this season and we're ok.

Luckily PRC is running during this international window so makes life a little more bearable save for training squads and rest weekend post the window. Impact on the premiership will be minimal.

The home game vs Leicester on 1 December could be a nervy one, but they'll likely be missing a similar number of guys if not more.

Well done our 4 (5 with George).

[ageinghoody]

Bit puzzled by the designation "Not considered for selection".

Wouldn't that apply to anyone whose name doesn't appear on the list of those selected?

Or does it mean that those named were considered before it was decided not to consider them?

At the least, it suggests that everyone considered has in fact been selected!

[Olyy]

Reed named in Scotland's squad

[Bucks1861]

Saw that.

Sad for Gus.

[Clutch]

Sad but not an international standard player. Was slightly baffled they selected him in the first place.

[Olyy]

Tom and George named in the initial lot of 17 RFU central contracts
Guessing that means they're staying put? I know Axe mentioned them as two he's wanting to re-sign ASAP

Think there's 8(?) more to be announced post 6N

[ledzepsfr]

So central contracts are worth around 160K/year as opposed to 23k per game.
2024 season saw/sees 5 6 Nations matches, 3 Summer tour matches and 4 Autumn Nations matches. 12 games in total at 23K/game would be in the region of 276k

Big difference in income there. I guess the contract is guaranteed whether they play or not. Or is the contract a guarantee that they are a shoe in for the matchday 23?

[poyntonshark]

The contract cannot guarantee selection, surely? Injury, for one, would put paid to that. I would assume that there is some kind of appearance bonus on top of the contract for those who play.

[Yareet]

The contract cannot guarantee selection, surely? Injury, for one, would put paid to that. I would assume that there is some kind of appearance bonus on top of the contract for those who play.

I don’t think so. My understanding is that this replaces the appearance fees so the players get less but it is guaranteed.

[poyntonshark]

So there's more pressure on the clubs to make up 100K shortfall? I know not necessarily so much, but these players would generally expect to play most games.

[RinTin]

Unsure if it was touched on elsewhere, but Waisea is in as a co-captain for Fiji this autumn. Hopefully he finds some form.

[Olyy]

Roebuck released from England squad, Ford promoted from injury list to full player


Other movements: Ted Hill and Alex Coles in, Charlie Ewels and Ollie Chessum (inj.) out

[Yareet]

Tom and George highlighted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 3q8g904ndo

Does this mean they're both slated to play?

[RinTin]

I think Curry will get there, but not George. The Smiths deserve to both be in the 23.

I'll start the hypotheticals:

I'd like to see a 1-15 of:
Baxter, George (c), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, CCS, TC, Earl, JVP, M Smith, Freeman, Northmore, Lawrence, Feyi-Waboso, Furbank.

16-23:
Dann, Genge, Cole, Coles, Underhill, Spencer, F Smith, Daly.

Northmore is the bolter imo and also allows Lawrence to play his best position of 13.

[Yareet]

I think Curry will get there, but not George. The Smiths deserve to both be in the 23.

I'll start the hypotheticals:

I'd like to see a 1-15 of:
Baxter, George (c), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, CCS, TC, Earl, JVP, M Smith, Freeman, Northmore, Lawrence, Feyi-Waboso, Furbank.

16-23:
Dann, Genge, Cole, Coles, Underhill, Spencer, F Smith, Daly.

Northmore is the bolter imo and also allows Lawrence to play his best position of 13.

Given this weekend's decision, I think it's pretty obvious that Slade will play 13. I also think Genge will start as a recognised leader in the squad

[RinTin]

I think Curry will get there, but not George. The Smiths deserve to both be in the 23.

I'll start the hypotheticals:

I'd like to see a 1-15 of:
Baxter, George (c), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, CCS, TC, Earl, JVP, M Smith, Freeman, Northmore, Lawrence, Feyi-Waboso, Furbank.

16-23:
Dann, Genge, Cole, Coles, Underhill, Spencer, F Smith, Daly.

Northmore is the bolter imo and also allows Lawrence to play his best position of 13.

Given this weekend's decision, I think it's pretty obvious that Slade will play 13. I also think Genge will start as a recognised leader in the squad

As I mentioned, it's the team I would like to see.

[Bucks1861]

Teams up


England:

15. George Furbank(Northampton Saints, 11 caps)

14. Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs, 6 caps)

13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 65 caps)

12. Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 27 caps)

11. Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)

10. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 35 caps)

9. Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby, 6 caps)


1. Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 62 caps)– vice-captain

2. Jamie George (Saracens, 93 caps) – captain

3. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 41 caps)

4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 84 caps)– vice-captain

5.George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 15 caps)

6. Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins, 7 caps)

7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 53 caps)

8. Ben Earl (Saracens, 33 caps)– vice-captain


Replacements:

16. Theo Dan (Saracens, 14 caps)

17. Fin Baxter (Harlequins, 2 caps)

18. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 115 caps)

19. Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 11 caps)

20. Ben Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps)

21. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 17 caps)

22. Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 7 caps)

23. George Ford (Sale Sharks, 96 caps) – vice captain


Well done to our lads.

[Olyy]

That's an early announcement!

Great to see them all involved - 6:2 bench feels risky with both Slade and Ford coming off of injuries
Would've felt better if there was no Dombrandt and they added Sleightholme to the bench (with Freeman covering centre from the pitch). As it stands if we lose anyone outside 10 it'll be a big reshuffle and players out of position

Great to see Spencer finally get a start

[RuggerPleb]

Twindaloo... first time for Double-Curry isn't it? We weren't sure that would ever happen... let's see if they swap them or they play together.

[Yareet]

Tom and George highlighted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 3q8g904ndo

Does this mean they're both slated to play?

Yes they are

[poyntonshark]

That's an early announcement!

Great to see them all involved - 6:2 bench feels risky with both Slade and Ford coming off of injuries
Would've felt better if there was no Dombrandt and they added Sleightholme to the bench (with Freeman covering centre from the pitch). As it stands if we lose anyone outside 10 it'll be a big reshuffle and players out of position

Great to see Spencer finally get a start

I was reading that thinking, "It's not 6:2, there are 3 backs there" then realised I was reading Fin Baxter as Finn Smith. Whilst I am happy for Spencer, it's not like he hasn't deserved a start before now. I'm honestly not sure that now is the right time, I think he is on the wain, still good obviously, but not what he was. I hope the selectors see him as an option through to the next world cup, otherwise there really is no point in him being there, beyond sentimentalty/reparations

[Surbiton_Shark]

Quite like the selection - very deserved for Spencer - agree his time has most likely been and gone due to Jones ignoring eeryone else but Youngs - he'll probably be our starting 9 until Mitchell returns

Dombrandt on the bench is interesting - perhaps his extra pace and running lines against a tiring side is the thought process? - when he starts against any big pack he's very anonymous

Very nice to see Ben Curry get some international recognition

I'll be there this weekend and also for the SA game (now live close by) - might have my Sale hoodie so please say hi if you're attending

[Olyy]

Ben did really well off the bench,
The less said about the rest of the bench the better, though, really

[Bucks1861]

There’s been a lot in both the press and on social media vilifying George Ford.

I offer this comment, with which I agree:-


Matt Dawson, who supplied the pass for Jonny Wilkinson’s historic strike in 2003, believes that accuracy abandoned England.

“It was utter chaos,” he told BBC Radio 5 Live. “All it needed was the composure from George Ford but you cannot put the blame on him. It was a terrible pass under pressure from Randall.”

[dinogyro]

I don't know if I had too much to drink, but weren't NZ down to 14? No need for the drop kick. Do the pushing and shoving bit and wait until a space opens up out wide.

[Flumpty]

I don't know if I had too much to drink, but weren't NZ down to 14? No need for the drop kick. Do the pushing and shoving bit and wait until a space opens up out wide.

But it was very, very late in the game and each additional phase runs the risk of a knock on, forward pass, "straight to ground", choke tackle and held up in contact etc.

Sensibly retaining posession, running the clock into the red setting up a good position for a drop goal attempt was a good plan. Sadly the scrum half shovelled out a pass that a 12 year old would have been ashamed of ............................

[RinTin]

Asher called up.

Anyone know if it is as a loosie to cover Marler retiring?

[Olyy]

That is a surprise!
Must be at looshead, as you said: it's to replace Marler


Just completely blows my mind that the RFU think the most promising tighthead the country has produced in a generation should actually be playing loose head - I could understand it at u20 level as there was Fasogbon and Sela at 3 and Asher could play 1 so you could fit them all in the 23 together, but he's shown himself to be a level above both of them in the senior game at 3

[RinTin]

I can only imagine the conversation between Steve and Axe. Alex wouldn’t stand in his way of course, but wrong call here RFU if it is indeed for Marler.

Current looseheads are Genge, Baxter, Obano and Rodd. To move, as you say Olyy, one of the most promising tightheads around into that group makes no sense especially given the lack of tighthead depth at international level.

[DavenportSharky]

To replace Marler according to The Sunday Times

[DavenportSharky]

As if to signal the changing of the guard, England have called up the Sale Sharks prop Asher Opoku-Fordjour to replace Marler. The 20-year-old can play on both sides of the scrum but prefers tight-head. Elsewhere Charlie Ewels, the lock, is back in having recovered from concussion, in place of Ted Hill, his Bath team-mate.

[Olyy]

Watch him get a central contract in the next batch and us be told we can't play him at 3 anymore

[dinogyro]

I don't know if I had too much to drink, but weren't NZ down to 14? No need for the drop kick. Do the pushing and shoving bit and wait until a space opens up out wide.

But it was very, very late in the game and each additional phase runs the risk of a knock on, forward pass, "straight to ground", choke tackle and held up in contact etc.

Sensibly retaining posession, running the clock into the red setting up a good position for a drop goal attempt was a good plan. Sadly the scrum half shovelled out a pass that a 12 year old would have been ashamed of ............................

Yes, I agree with you. Two choices and you have to make one. If it had gone over...

I nearly wrote 'if it had been me', then I came to my senses and realised that I've never even played a game of club rugby.

[dinogyro]

That is a surprise!
Must be at looshead, as you said: it's to replace Marler


Just completely blows my mind that the RFU think the most promising tighthead the country has produced in a generation should actually be playing loose head - I could understand it at u20 level as there was Fasogbon and Sela at 3 and Asher could play 1 so you could fit them all in the 23 together, but he's shown himself to be a level above both of them in the senior game at 3

Isn't the danger that putting him in at the deep end, in a position he can play, but is not his favoured side, going to damage him if he doesn't do as well as expected?

[exileneal]

At this stage I assume the main motivation for England is to have a closer look at him and get him around the squad. If he plays it will probably be off the bench in the Japan game but I would expect playing for England A would be more likely on Sunday 17th. I wonder if this is just a one-week look and he’ll join up with the A team next week to prepare for that game instead of effectively being injury cover with the first team?

[RinTin]

Team vs Oz

England: Furbank; Feyi-Waboso, Lawrence, Slade, Freeman; M Smith, Spencer; Genge, George (capt), Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, T Curry, Earl.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Cole, Isiekwe, Dombrandt, Randall, Ford, Sleightholme.

Back to 5-3 bench split. Ben out, Sleightholme in. LCD in for Dann.

[Olyy]

I like the return to a 5:3 but dropping Ben is so dumb, he's the only player who actually added from the bench last week - how many chances does Dombrandt get without contributing?

[RinTin]

True, but Ben is also the most limited bench option. Isiekwe covers row and 6, Dombrandt 8 with Earl covering 7. If SB trusted CCS to cover 8 (as he should in my opinion) then Ben should be on the bench 100%.

If Dombrandt went then Borthwick would look to another out and out 8 in the 20 shirt.

[Yareet]

Carps and Robes are in the England A squad

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/conten ... ting-squad

Forwards

Joe Batley (Bristol Bears)

Afolabi Fasogbon (Gloucester Rugby)

Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)

Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 7 caps)

Ted Hill (Bath Rugby, 2 caps)

Emmanuel Iyogun (Northampton Saints)

Nathan Jibulu (Harlequins)

Curtis Langdon (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)

Gabriel Oghre (Bristol Bears)

Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)

Henry Pollock (Northampton Saints)

Vilikesa Sela (Bath Rugby)

Tom Willis (Saracens, 1 cap)

Backs

Charlie Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby)

Oscar Beard (Harlequins)

Joe Carpenter (Sale Sharks)

Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)

Gabriel Ibitoye (Bristol Bears)

Archie McParland (Northampton Saints)

Cadan Murley (Harlequins)

Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby)

Will Porter (Harlequins)

Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks, 1 cap)

Jamie Shillcock (Leicester Tigers)


And Titts (OOTP) as Forwards coach

[Olyy]

Good stuff!

It mentioned that a few senior squad players will drop into the squad as well, I reckon Asher is pretty nailed on as there's only one loosehead there

Carpenter the only dedicated 15 so hopefully he gets the start, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Finn Smith drop down and Shillcock go to 15

[Yareet]

Good stuff!

It mentioned that a few senior squad players will drop into the squad as well, I reckon Asher is pretty nailed on as there's only one loosehead there

Carpenter the only dedicated 15 so hopefully he gets the start, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Finn Smith drop down and Shillcock go to 15

Was just thinking this - one LH and 3 THs

[DavenportSharky]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ ... am-4854909

[RinTin]

Reed not called up for Scotland. In other news Rassie has gone for the 7:1 bench split again. His bench backrow is Kolisi, PSDT and Wiese. Mad.

15. Tom Jordan – Glasgow Warriors (1) 14. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (53) 13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (51) 12. Sione Tuipulotu – Glasgow Warriors (28) CAPTAIN 11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (42) 10. Finn Russell – Bath Rugby (80) VICE-CAPTAIN 9. Ben White – Toulon (22)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (35) 2. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (20) 3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (68) 4. Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby (73) 5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (40) 6. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (48) 7. Rory Darge – Glasgow Warriors (23) VICE-CAPTAIN 8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (21)

Replacements

16. Dylan Richardson – The Sharks (4)
17. Rory Sutherland – Glasgow Warriors (33)
18. Elliot Millar Mills – Northampton Saints (5)
19. Max Williamson – Glasgow Warriors (5)
20. Josh Bayliss – Bath Rugby (7)
21. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (52)
22. Jamie Dobie – Glasgow Warriors (7)
23. Stafford McDowall – Glasgow Warriors (6)

[RinTin]

Naya starts for Fiji at 13 and captains. Tuisova at 12 and Radradra on the wing.

[Olyy]

Sleightholme aside the bench was poor again

Defence went to shit when Tom went off - not sure whether he was the glue or if it was the break in play that knocked concentration, but it was dreadful

Australia showing sparks of life - attack was fantastic, be interesting to see if they can build off this
That new NRL centre they've got was quality for his first Union game - incredible athlete