[JohnJ of HM]

Don't like the report of Raffi injury

[RinTin]

One game of Double Curry is all I ask. Double Curry with Willis at 8 looks immense imo. Chessum and Earl on the bench.

What is this Raffi injury report??

[Olyy]

Yeah, in general Chessum would be my 6 but he's only played 54mins since October - don't know if that knocks him down a bit due to lack of match fitness/sharpness. There was plenty of chat about Slade and Ford going back into the side with little game time

Personally, I'd have him coming off the bench for Martin initially and then see where he's out re: starting as the tournament progresses

[JohnJ of HM]

One game of Double Curry is all I ask. Double Curry with Willis at 8 looks immense imo. Chessum and Earl on the bench.

What is this Raffi injury report??

Same Telegraph report says he was going to be on the bench but picked up a hamstring injury.

[Surbiton_Shark]

Don't like the report of Raffi injury

Not again.....good grief

[SSR]

Do they deliberately try to break our players?

[exileneal]

Not sure anyone would need to try especially hard with Raffi unfortunately.

There is such a high quality player there if he could get a bit of injury luck.

[RinTin]

Steward; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Murley; M Smith, Mitchell; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Stuart, Itoje, Martin, T Curry, B Curry, Earl

Replacements: Dan, Baxter, Heyes, Chessum, Cunningham-South, Willis, Randall, F Smith

Come on double Curry!!

Disappointed no Roebuck, Raffi, Bevan or Asher. Don't know what more Roebuck and Bev could have done really.

[Olyy]

Disappointed at no Roebuck - Murley in very good form so not a slight on him, but would've preferred Roebuck on the bench instead of a 6:2

Really happy for Ben and Tom - all told it's a decent lineup.
Concerned about Earl at 8 considering he doesn't play there at club level and had a poor autumn and summer last year, but we know what levels he can reach, let's hope he turns it up a notch
Also Randall off the bench, but there's not really anyone else with Raffi and JvP injured

[RinTin]

Losing 8 players for the Bath game with only 3 then making the matchday 23 feels like a real slap in the face. Of the 13 guys left out 5 of them are ours.

Good point re the 6:2 split. Given Freeman can cover 13 and Smith 15 I can see why it works and there being no need for a further back 5 player. Famous last words.

[Alex]

Think Murley has been poor, especially under the high ball. Feel sorry for Tom, he'd have done a far better job.

[Olyy]

Real nightmare game for Murley, after the first 8mins, and then a 6:2 bench meant we were stuck

Tom's best England game in years and Ben made a good account of himself too

Roebuck should be in the 23 next week, hopefully - even more surprised he wasn't today after our Plan A looked to be crossfields and high balls onto the 22 line

Hopefully Raffi is fit next week as I don't think either 9 was upto much today

[Lord Elpus]

We should have Willis at 8. Slade nowhere near good enough now.

[Olyy]

Slade had a reasonable first half but dropped off a lot in the second

He looked very slow, as well (like when JGP smashed him), and he doesn't pack a punch on the carry or defence - feel like you can be slow or slight, but not both

The sooner we start bringing through Atkinson or Hartley or Ojomoh at 12 the better

[Beardedshark]

Admittedly shark tinted specs but surely Bev and Asher would have made more of an impression

[poyntonshark]

If one cute kick is all it takes for Slade to have had a decent half at international level, then I'm writing myself back in with a chance. Surely the bar has to be higher. Borthwick appears to have more muddled thinking than Martin Johnson did. Pick Murley then play a game plan tailor made for Tom Roebuck. 10 minutes to go, 10 points down and we are still box kicking, we didn't regain a single one all game. Borthwick has promised something new from Egland ever since he took over yet persists with a style that is about a decade out of date. I'm not sure all of the players are up to it, but can't form a proper opinion whilst they are not allowed to play rugby until the game is lost.
Bad news for Sale is that it looks as though LCD needs a 2 week pre-game camp to properly learn the lineout calls

[SSR]

Echo comments about Slade. We won't win anything without some power and speed in the
backs. Can't see why Slade is picked over Daley even. He is better in every respect. But we
need a better midfield that offers some go-forward and puts fear into the opposition.
I thought ( apart from lineout issues ) that the starting forwards did well. Tom and Ben were
as good as I could have hoped but I was very worried about Tom limping at the end. I
sincerely hope that is was just a bang and nothing more sinister.
The less said about Murley's brain farts, the better. The backs had a night to try to forget.
God knows what happened at half-time, I was hopeful of a win at that point. Thought that
F Smith had a decent cameo.

[Olyy]

Think the issue with dropping Daly in is that they've finally clocked that Lawrence plays better at 13 than 12 (shock horror, as that's his actual position) and Daly's not a 12 either

SB has wasted so much time not bothering to look for a 12 - closest he's come is trying Dingwall there (who is, again, a 13 by trade - but at least has played some 12 at club level)

Why he doesn't have Atkinson or Hartley or Ojomoh in the squad even just to hold tackle bags and learn the systems is beyond me

[SSR]

Yep. Lawrence was not the problem as such, but mid field was porous. We have a problem with
Steward and Freeman. Steward is so easily stepped. Freeman is good enough to play but seems
more of a jack-of-all-trades. We miss the Feyi-Waboso factor. Scotlands backs are so effective
when they have the ball. Speed and size in most positions.
Bench was not nearly as effective as I hoped.
Could be another fourth place coming.

[Lord Elpus]

Borthwick (& Wiggy) much too slow to change things when tide turned. Martin & Earl disappeared in the 2nd half.

For France (hides behind sofa) back row should be CCS, Curry (either - t'other on't bench) , Willis. Might start Chessum over Martin.

[Surbiton_Shark]

All a bit similiar to the recent Autumn Internationals really.

We have a decent start then slowly fizzle away. Give away a load of pens and heap more and more pressure on ourselves. Marcus Smith isn't an international 10 , he just can't control a game. When we did get precious possession he hoofed it away. He just has to go to 15 - Steward's one trick doesn't offer enough. Preplanned subs.....why take Ben off - the new replacements should have increased our defense - instead we just had gaping holes that Ireland picked out.

Roebuck should walk into the wing tomorrow

I honestly think we have the makings of a really good team - we just don't get the right pieces in the right positions. Hope Quirke is fit, he should defo be in the 23

[Olyy]

No Raffi in the latest squad update - Jamie George's return the only change

[Yareet]

No Raffi in the latest squad update - Jamie George's return the only change

I don’t think that Raffi ever left the squad. George was replaced (by Langdon ?) whereas Raffi was still in the squad last week

[Olyy]

Ah yeah, true: he's left it now and has been replaced by JG, then
Bit of a weird one as Langdon is still there so there's now 4 hookers

Would imagine Raffi is still in camp as walking wounded, but not sure they've announced who is

[Lord Elpus]

Murley out with foot injury.

[RinTin]

Weirdly Lozowski called up. Find it a strange move given he's not a wing/ back three replacement, not a realistic first team option, and not a young lad we can expose to training with the elite squad leading up a key 6 nations match.

Would have rather seen someone like Carpenter, Hendy or Cokanasiga.

Hopefully a start for Tom this weekend.

[Lord Elpus]

Hendy good shout - for Italy and/or wales?

I doubt if he'll play Lozowski instead of Slade though I'd have done that in the original squad.

[Olyy]

Think Hendy is still injured


Lozowski is a weird call up - I'm a big fan, but he's played almost exclusively 13 since coming back from France, and we don't need another 13
He can cover basically the whole backline, but so can Daly (who I don't rate anymore, but he's still in the squad, so do you need another generalist?)

Would've been better off calling in a 15 or 12, seeing as the likelihood of whoever is called up playing is very very slim, and they'd benefit more

I wonder if the horrible rumours of Steward to wing and M.Smith to 15 are actually coming true, and Daly is now being viewed as a 15 and Lozowski taking his role as whole backline cover

[Yareet]

Weirdly Lozowski called up. Find it a strange move given he's not a wing/ back three replacement, not a realistic first team option, and not a young lad we can expose to training with the elite squad leading up a key 6 nations match.

Would have rather seen someone like Carpenter, Hendy or Cokanasiga.

Hopefully a start for Tom this weekend.

I'd see Tom as battling more with Freeman for a spot. A more similar replacement for Murley (in the IFW role) would be Sleightholme, no?

[RinTin]

Weirdly Lozowski called up. Find it a strange move given he's not a wing/ back three replacement, not a realistic first team option, and not a young lad we can expose to training with the elite squad leading up a key 6 nations match.

Would have rather seen someone like Carpenter, Hendy or Cokanasiga.

Hopefully a start for Tom this weekend.

I'd see Tom as battling more with Freeman for a spot. A more similar replacement for Murley (in the IFW role) would be Sleightholme, no?

What's the role of our left wings vs right wings? I'd argue Roebuck is one the most well rounded wings in the premiership given his finishing, defence and aerial ability. His pace is under stated as well. Why couldn't he replace Murley?

[Olyy]

Daily Mail reporting it's gonna be 10. Fin and 15. Marcus

Inevitably that'll mean Steward on the wing, which is mad considering Roebuck is right there if you want a winger who is also a high ball/competitive catch specialist but doesn't have the turning circle of a tug boat

[RinTin]

Baffles me, especially when there are tailormade 15's playing very well in the prem if you did want Steward on the wing. Says a lot about the confidence held in 2 capped wingers who are already in the squad too.

I think this is also very poor treatment of Marcus Smith. He finally gets the keys, then he's shifted out straight away and has found himself used as a scapegoat more than once in a position he does not play regularly.

[ale shark]

I’m not sure how we can say M Smith has finally been given the keys! He’s played 42 times for England and probably been the starting fly half for at least half of those (the equivalent of 4 full 6 Nations campaigns). Whilst he’s undoubtedly a better 15 than Steward ever will be I’m yet to be convinced he’s even the best Smith to be playing 10 for a successful England team.

[Olyy]

Whoever plays 10 is on a hiding to nothing until we sort the 12 situation out, really


IMO Marcus should keep the shirt for the 6N and then we start Fin over the summer

[RinTin]

I’m not sure how we can say M Smith has finally been given the keys! He’s played 42 times for England and probably been the starting fly half for at least half of those (the equivalent of 4 full 6 Nations campaigns). Whilst he’s undoubtedly a better 15 than Steward ever will be I’m yet to be convinced he’s even the best Smith to be playing 10 for a successful England team.

I simply meant that he was waiting behind Farrell and Ford despite being heralded as the next big thing for years. He didn't get a chance to cement the 10 shirt for himself until the 2024 6 nations. That was when he was given the keys so to speak.

Starting 10 for Quins since the 17/18 season, taking them to finals and trophies, Lions tour in 2021, but not Englands first choice 10 until 2024. He's waited his turn and I do not see it as fair to stick him at 15 which is a thankless task. He's bench, or he starts at 10. Simple.

[Yareet]

Weirdly Lozowski called up. Find it a strange move given he's not a wing/ back three replacement, not a realistic first team option, and not a young lad we can expose to training with the elite squad leading up a key 6 nations match.

Would have rather seen someone like Carpenter, Hendy or Cokanasiga.

Hopefully a start for Tom this weekend.

I'd see Tom as battling more with Freeman for a spot. A more similar replacement for Murley (in the IFW role) would be Sleightholme, no?

What's the role of our left wings vs right wings? I'd argue Roebuck is one the most well rounded wings in the premiership given his finishing, defence and aerial ability. His pace is under stated as well. Why couldn't he replace Murley?

Wasn’t particularly thinking left and right but lots of teams have an out-and-out pace man (IFW, Sleightholme, Reed, LBB, Murley) on one wing and more of a bigger man (Freeman, Roebuck, DvM, Penaud, Isgro) on the other.

[exileneal]

I'd see Tom as battling more with Freeman for a spot. A more similar replacement for Murley (in the IFW role) would be Sleightholme, no?

What's the role of our left wings vs right wings? I'd argue Roebuck is one the most well rounded wings in the premiership given his finishing, defence and aerial ability. His pace is under stated as well. Why couldn't he replace Murley?

Wasn’t particularly thinking left and right but lots of teams have an out-and-out pace man (IFW, Sleightholme, Reed, LBB, Murley) on one wing and more of a bigger man (Freeman, Roebuck, DvM, Penaud, Isgro) on the other.

I’m thinking it will be Sleoghtholme and Freeman this weekend. Anything would be preferable to Steward on the wing though… Nothing against Steward but playing him out of position against France gives me anxiety.

[Lord Elpus]

I’m thinking it will be Sleoghtholme and Freeman this weekend. Anything would be preferable to Steward on the wing though… Nothing against Steward but playing him out of position against France gives me anxiety.

Playing Steward anywhere against France gives me anxiety ...........in spades.

[dinogyro]

Hasn't England tried M Smith at 15 enough times? I don't believe that sacking the manager every time is the thing to do, but it's starting to look like panic mode, shuffle players round, re-start stuff. I was genuinely hopeful of a win in last week's game, but we seem no further forward. We have the talent, but we still can't get a win.

[RinTin]

Rumour mill is strong this morning.

Being reported that Sleightholme to wing, M Smith at 15 and Steward out of 23. 6:2 bench split with Daly in the 23 shirt.

Pack wise only change looks to be Willis to 8, Ben Curry bench, Earl to 7. One outlet suggests Rodd in at 17.

Lets see what actually happens.

[exileneal]

Team confirmed - Tom Curry and LCD start. Ben on the bench.

6:2 split on the bench.

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Stuart
4. Itoje
5. Martin
6. Tom Curry
7. Earl
8. Willis
9. Mitchell
10. Fin Smith
11. Sleighthome
12. Slade
13. Lawrence
14. Freeman
15. Marcus Smith

Bench - George, Baxter, Hayes, Chessum, Ben Curry, Cunningham-South, Randall, Daly.

[Olyy]

Earl getting another start over BC is lame, BC's form is so much better and his stats last week didn't scream "Drop me" - in fact they were very impressive, especially considering he only played 59mins

Daly on the bench is pretty lame too

I like Marcus Smith, so hope that he goes well, but can't help but feel that this is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic - and what message does it say to the 15s in the country that they'll play a flyhalf, who has said he wants to play 10 not 15, at 15

Think we're in for a hiding

[SSR]

No real surprises in the final 23. We are not going to win anything with our centre pairing
(I would rather have Ben at 12 than Slade).
I fear a hiding as I don't think we are going to score any tries. The French defence is very good.
I think we are possibly going to have a re-run of last week. Close in the first half,
lose it ( possibly by many ) in the second half. We hold no surprises for any team.

[RinTin]

This is similar to what happened to Ben in Autumn. He came on vs All Blacks, made a hugely positive impact from the bench, then wasn't seen again for the rest of the series.

Give me double Curry and Willis all day with Earl off the bench.

[Olyy]

Edit: wrong thread

[Lord Elpus]

Dom Hanson scores !

[SSR]

I have noticed Tom Curry limping at the end of matches lately. Some comments on
another site ( including a Trauma Surgeon ) about Tom wincing during the match
yesterday. I think we are all concerned about it for obvious reasons.
I really, really hope that this is something and nothing and wish him the best.

[LJK]

Near the end of the game last week Tom looked absolutely spent on a TV close up, and yet still powered forward like it was the first half. Amazing movement for a big man. Thought for his defensive work and work rate yesterday over 80 mins he should have been MoM, rather than Smith, who by his own admission was a bit lost in the first half.
Talking of TV close ups, Borthwick's lack of reaction to the late try yesterday was bizarre. Wiggy or somebody to his left thumped him with joy and he just didn't show anything. Whether good coach or not his demeanour is very boring to the public.

[Lord Elpus]

Yet another thing England consistently get wrong is having Slade kick to touch from the left. We now have two right footed kickers in the Smiths. Let Slade do the right hand side, either Smith the left side. I wouldn't mind Daly over Slade - another left footed kicker.

LCD's throwing was poor - George should replace him next game. Against wales & Italy I hope Asher gets a go - Heyes is a donkey imho - but importantly - a Cheetah.

[DavenportSharky]

Yes Bevan’s chance of displacing Baxter seems to have evaporated as he played a good contribution bar his first penalty. I didn’t notice an awful lot from Willis but he is so loved by the media along with Saint Ben Earl that I can’t see Ben Curry getting another start unless there is an injury to Tom. We seemed to have a very high number of players in the full and under 20 squads but that’s not translated into time on the pitch.