[The Back Row]

I cant seriously frame the questions without sarcasm and bias... but come on, look at the league. We are a shambles. When will your patience run out?

[RinTin]

I cant seriously frame the questions without sarcasm and bias... but come on, look at the league. We are a shambles. When will your patience run out?

One swallow doesn't make a summer. One season outside the top 4 when we are going through a re building phase doesn't mean we need to rip the tree up when pruning the branches.

I'm good for this year. Different story come this point in the 26/27 season.

Your poll says has 3 options saying 'get him out' with only 1 allowing to stay passed this season - if we select that it makes us deluded in your eyes based on how you have worded it.

[The Back Row]

It does indeed.

[AntSale]

I suspect this poll will end with only the one voter

[AntSale]

I cant seriously frame the questions without sarcasm and bias... but come on, look at the league. We are a shambles. When will your patience run out?

One swallow doesn't make a summer. One season outside the top 4 when we are going through a re building phase doesn't mean we need to rip the tree up when pruning the branches.

I'm good for this year. Different story come this point in the 26/27 season.

Your poll says has 3 options saying 'get him out' with only 1 allowing to stay passed this season - if we select that it makes us deluded in your eyes based on how you have worded it.

Would agree with this, last 5 years we have been regular playoff contenders/participants. This year has been poor but wouldn't be looking to make drastic changes just on missing top four alone. Look at Northampton last year as an example

[dinogyro]

I'm not happy with the situation, but without the injuries we have, who knows where we could have been? Rugby is a bit pot luck in that respect.

I give Alex until the end of the 26/27 season. If we are not finalists that season, he's had enough of a go. If we reach the final, he can stay.

[The Back Row]

I suspect this poll will end with only the one voter

Whihc on this forum will make it in the top 10 most popular posts of the week.

[ledzepsfr]

I'm not happy with the situation, but without the injuries we have, who knows where we could have been? Rugby is a bit pot luck in that respect.

I give Alex until the end of the 26/27 season. If we are not finalists that season, he's had enough of a go. If we reach the final, he can stay.

I've said before on this board, I'm certain that I have read or heard an interview with Simon Orange stating that AS's job is not under review this season. Next season........

[The Back Row]

I suspect this poll will end with only the one voter

Your judgement as sound as ever.

[AntSale]

I suspect this poll will end with only the one voter

Your judgement as sound as ever.

[dinogyro]

I suspect this poll will end with only the one voter

Your judgement as sound as ever.

I don't think you should be attacking people personally. Make your argument, if nobody likes it, then tough on you. I have views people don't agree with, I have to accept that.

[AntSale]

I suspect this poll will end with only the one voter

Your judgement as sound as ever.

I don't think you should be attacking people personally. Make your argument, if nobody likes it, then tough on you. I have views people don't agree with, I have to accept that.

Agree with you, my comment was more intended as a little "banter" regarding the wording of the possible answers, apologies if it came across as malicious.

I agree with The BackRow that we are underperforming but don't feel we need to press the eject button just yet. Think in the past few years we have seen a few teams go from a strong season into a poor one the next and then bounce back again the following. The past five years we have been fairly consistent (and a significant improvement on the years before Sanderson)

[RinTin]

Sanderson made us top 4 regulars. He has one more season to try to reach the pinnacle before I'm inclined to thank him for everything and wish him well.

[Yareet]

I think we can keep him around for another week at least

[ledzepsfr]

I thought that this was the best place to post this :

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... -sanderson

[Sumisu]

When you tell people that you are a Sale Sharks supporter, what exactly do you believe you are supporting? Is it just the club name, the shark logo? or is it the people of Sale Sharks that you're supporting?

Over the years I've seen complaints about either players not being good enough, or coaches, our DOR. If you're only able to look at your club's members through the lens of efficiency and numbers, then you're in danger of de-humanising the staff with a cold business mentality... and as a fan you will eventually lose your passion and joy for the sport in the process (you'll get that with any club in the prem).

Losing is painful, for us, and for them, for the whole Sale Sharks family... but we'll get through it in the end, together.

[ledzepsfr]

For me being a Sale Sharks supporter is/was different things.
Along with my young son we started to travel to Edgeley Park to watch Sale in 2005, for reasons of complete boredom watching Port Vale FC. We became season ticket holders of Sale in 2006. Going to matches, purchasing merchandise, food & drinks and giving up our time is how I believe we supported the club /team.
I left England in 2012 permanently for a life in Australia. Nowadays I no longer go to games or buy merch. But I am a fan. I watch every game home and away 'as live' on tv.

I think my loyalties with Sale lie first and foremost in the Team/Squad. Coaches/owners/ staff don't really mean a great deal to me. My pleasure is watching the team play and compete and win. I don't get much pleasure from playing well and losing. But I am a realist and I accept that we will not win every game or every competition. For 80+ minutes I welcome the escape from reality.

So to sum up, ex supporter, current fan. And you Sumisu?


Note: these days my support lies with Western Force where I have Platinum Membership.

[The Back Row]

Blindly following is not what being a fan is about.

My views on the failure and underperformance of Sanderson are well known.

I still wanted us to wipe the floor with a pathetic Quins team, and was delighted when we did.

Similarly a win against that team does not mean I'm swerpt away.

Theres a film quote something like: If you cant be honest about the people and things you love, you're probably lying to yourself.

[PappjeShark]

If Sanderson is a failure and has delivered underperformance, I’d hate to see your idea of success. Because it sounds either unachievable, unrealistic, or both.

[ledzepsfr]

@ The Back Row - Blindly following is not what being a fan is about. So what is being a fan about?

[The Back Row]

If Sanderson is a failure and has delivered underperformance, I’d hate to see your idea of success. Because it sounds either unachievable, unrealistic, or both.

One final early on and then regression to the mean. We are Saracens of 6 or 7 years ago without the dominance or quality of players. The defensive bullying is not cutting it in this attacking premiership - it works occasionally given match-ups (Quins, and hopefully Brizzle) but is not up to scratch. We only play with abandon once we have physically dominated and we dont do that nearly as often as Sarrieds did.

If were happy to accept that we will bash the odd team and try to be heroes in defence whilst sticking to a bland system of box kick and when a chance is on pull the pass out the back and look for bullet passes - then fine. But we have to accept it is not effective enough and it works maybe one game in three or four.

We have apparently the second highest wage bill in the Prem (People on here still think we spend marginally more than Newcastle) but its out there in the public domain people from within the club talking of how much we spend, and plenty of analysis putting us right near the top of spending. With that money we should be aiming for the play-offs WITHOUT fail, and expecting finals/wins - we are a million miles off.


If we spent less time on drawing heraldic shields, creating visual images of Sharks dragging Tigers to the bottom of the Ocean, or misquoting guff science - Sanderson actually spoke about womens periods synchronising - (which they dont) as reasons that its important to bring a breathing coach into the club. The man is a snake oil salesman, who sticks to a dull, largely underperforming game plan which the players are terrified to go against, his role as DOR has been piss poor (Deacon persevered with for far too long, allowing George Ford to recruit his brother as attack coach, hit and miss on recruitment with a very heavy chequebook, [Edit to add] The absolute farce of Boartalami, which I am sure wasnt for free....). He was recruited based on this guff, on his reputation for success as Sarries Defence coach (Ignoring his role in systemic defrauding of the league which bought their success in the first place) and a lot of the fan base including 95% of people in here bought into it as little fan-boys, even confessing to drinking Malbec on sundays to be like Al.

Addressing all of this - thats what my view of success looks like.

[The Back Row]

@ The Back Row - Blindly following is not what being a fan is about. So what is being a fan about?

Optimism; adulation; disappointment; drama; highs and lows; friendships; days out; successes; despair; frustration; investment; away days; home beers; Pride; being fleeced for sub family; quality kit and liking it; dreaming; kicking the cat; enjoyment.

None of which requires you to see something obviously wrong and squash dissenting opinions like Keir Starmer on steroids.

[Yareet]

If Sanderson is a failure and has delivered underperformance, I’d hate to see your idea of success. Because it sounds either unachievable, unrealistic, or both.

One final early on and then regression to the mean.

With that money we should be aiming for the play-offs WITHOUT fail, and expecting finals/wins - we are a million miles off.

The mean being a regular top 4 place? Our typical pre-Sanderson position was noticeably lower.

I keep meaning to check but since Al took over, I don’t think any team (let alone coach) has made top 4 without fail. For me, that supports the earlier comment that perhaps the evidence suggests that expectations are higher than is feasible.

Yes, many of us are frustrated that we aren’t showing any consistency but I think every team suffers the same issue at times. Bath should not be getting hammered at home by Saints’ second team but it happened.

So, in answer to the question of what makes a fan, I guess for me it is about taking the rough with the smooth, celebrate the wins and bemoan the losses. At the end of a season, I look back and ask if it was a success (ish) and do I have confidence that those in charge can fix any mistakes. All while appreciating that I will never have the full picture.

Take Bortolami as an example. Last season, the sentiment was that we needed to be more ruthless earlier in the season. What we had been doing wasn’t quite working. We therefore tried something that we haven’t done before and brought in a proven Head Coach with a fresh pair of eyes. If that works, it’s a master stroke but like anything different, if it fails (and afaik we don’t know why Marco left) it’s an opportunity for critics to pounce on.

[dinogyro]

Controlling breathing is something most clubs train now, if the on-field huddles are anything to go by.

Breathwork has been around for thousands of years and is used a lot in yoga. Good breathwork assists you to enter a meditation state. It's proven stuff.

[The Back Row]

Missing the point entirely. Maybe would help if you’d heard his speech about it though. He claimed he’d researched it and read up on the science to show how innovative and insightful he was - citing his quackery about female menstruation. Yet all he’s doing is the same as everyone else - as you rightly point out.

[SSR]

This is a professional sport. If something works then you would expect everyone to be
doing it . As with players some coaches are better than others, that is why coaches move
around to learn from each other. If you are a professional you should not stop learming
or trying new things to see if they work.

[dinogyro]

Missing the point entirely. Maybe would help if you’d heard his speech about it though. He claimed he’d researched it and read up on the science to show how innovative and insightful he was - citing his quackery about female menstruation. Yet all he’s doing is the same as everyone else - as you rightly point out.

Sorry, you seemed to be disputing that breathing exercises work.

[Sumisu]

Yareet and SSR make good points.
Excluding Als first season here, we have been challenging in the top 4 consistently, and that's in spite of consistent bouts of mass injuries that (maybe I'm biased) seem to hit us more than other clubs.
And these guys are indeed professionals, they are always growing. Al has already proved his competence as far as I'm concerned and he's being 'battle-hardened' with each future blow. No club's track record is perfect, and we would be unfair to NOT let our club be forgiven for being human.

In addition, Al embodies and nurtures a strong culture at our club that aligns well with the majority of our supporters. The vast majority of us do feel positive by his involvement in our club.

The Back Row ... and a lot of the fan base including 95% of people in here bought into it as little fan-boys, even confessing to drinking Malbec on sundays to be like Al.

You're belittling members of your club, and the passionate members of the clubs fanbase. Maybe you believe "who's insane in an insane world" has relevance here, but to many of us it might come across as a statement from somebody that believes themselves superior.

I am part of the 95% you mention, and I honestly can't believe we're even having this debate.

[SSR]

Just to put the record straight. I don't drink Malbec on a Sunday, I drink Calfornian Merlot
as often as I am allowed to.

[The Back Row]

In addition, Al embodies and nurtures a strong culture at our club that aligns well with the majority of our supporters. The vast majority of us do feel positive by his involvement in our club.


I am part of the 95% you mention, and I honestly can't believe we're even having this debate.

Id love to know where you get these beliefs from. Crowd numbers are failing to grow, plenty of fans at matches complain and call it out as poor, the tactics of box kick and chase are not winning friends. How do you state that 'the vast majority of us' are positive?

He's spending through the nose. Were losing probably more money than any other club (God bless you Simon Orange). Were not attracting anyone to watch. Were 4th bottom with no realistic chance of the play-offs.

[The Back Row]

Just to put the record straight. I don't drink Malbec on a Sunday, I drink Calfornian Merlot
as often as I am allowed to.

I never had you down as one of the sheep!

[dinogyro]

The Back Row has an Axe to grind

I seem to disagree with most of his comments about Al, but it is always valuable to have an opposing opinion. What I don't think is useful, is him going off on a rant every time we lose. We know that most of us on here are reasonably happy with Al continuing. TBR, come back at the end of 26/27 and we'll have the discussion again.

It's Shiraz for me.

[Sumisu]

In addition, Al embodies and nurtures a strong culture at our club that aligns well with the majority of our supporters. The vast majority of us do feel positive by his involvement in our club.


I am part of the 95% you mention, and I honestly can't believe we're even having this debate.

Id love to know where you get these beliefs from. Crowd numbers are failing to grow, plenty of fans at matches complain and call it out as poor, the tactics of box kick and chase are not winning friends. How do you state that 'the vast majority of us' are positive?

He's spending through the nose. Were losing probably more money than any other club (God bless you Simon Orange). Were not attracting anyone to watch. Were 4th bottom with no realistic chance of the play-offs.

I do agree. Attendance has been in decline. But I can't help but think that the economy might be playing it's part in some of those numbers... but you've also got to see how sowing seeds of discontent would not help matters either.
In terms of club spending/profits, however, we're all haemorrhaging money. I'm sure I read somewhere that at least 7 clubs are technically insolvent and are only surviving thanks to continued investment, and Rugby Union in the UK on the whole is under threat - I don't think it's fair to pin the clubs money worries on our DOR.
I am with the belief that 'most' of us are resilient enough to weather out these storms and continue to show our support because, really, you're actually the first person I've spoken to to tell me otherwise. Without any real data to definitively support our claims on how the majority actually feel, I guess we're both guilty of being in our own echo-chambers.

[The Back Row]

A reasoned response.

I’d point out in response to the last few views,

A) Talking anything down on here has zero effect on attendances, or anything really. There’s a dozen people who post semi-regularly.

Compared to a non-league football club I follow with similar attendances, it has dozens of threads daily with hundreds of responses. This board has zero reach - small but perfectly formed if you like.

B) I don’t blame Sanderson for spending the money. But with the money he has he’s well below par.

C) I don’t come on here after a loss to slag Sanderson off. My views on him have been consistent and there are many who agree. Not so many on here, but until I stopped going there were plenty at the back of the West Stand.

Anyhow, let’s hope Sanderson’s emotions are enough to see us past Lam’s Love. Fingers crossed, here we go.

[Sumisu]

A reasoned response.

I’d point out in response to the last few views,

A) Talking anything down on here has zero effect on attendances, or anything really. There’s a dozen people who post semi-regularly.

Compared to a non-league football club I follow with similar attendances, it has dozens of threads daily with hundreds of responses. This board has zero reach - small but perfectly formed if you like.

B) I don’t blame Sanderson for spending the money. But with the money he has he’s well below par.

C) I don’t come on here after a loss to slag Sanderson off. My views on him have been consistent and there are many who agree. Not so many on here, but until I stopped going there were plenty at the back of the West Stand.

Anyhow, let’s hope Sanderson’s emotions are enough to see us past Lam’s Love. Fingers crossed, here we go.

I am coming to understand your perspective, no doubt... But I'm still living in the hope my faith is right, because it's what keeps me sane I guess haha

[SSR]

C) I don’t come on here after a loss to slag Sanderson off. My views on him have been consistent and there are many who agree. Not so many on here, but until I stopped going there were plenty at the back of the West Stand.

I think I see your problem, you are talking to people in the car park, you need to go into
the ground

[The Back Row]

I getter a better match experience, food and beer choices from there. Hah.

It’s interesting though. I also / used to follow lower division football passionately. Most fans there are (disproportionately) emotionally invested - which has its own drawbacks. But every win a glory, every loss a disaster, every decision biased etc.

Whereas at rugby I think most people who turn up go with the flow and enjoy a beer, and hope their team wins, and go home not really giving much of a toss - it is what it is.

Again - as a side note, the shambles that is the prem plays to this. Those who go, go anyway. Those who don’t have no interest because there’s no narrative? No drama, just one home game every 5 weeks - a critical failing stopping rugby being more popular. I’m

[SSR]

I totally agree that the PREM structure is a total nonsense. I can not see how we can
revert to a proper contiguous season. It does not help with the football season being
vitually all year now.

[dinogyro]

It's the international games that are the problem. When the Premiership continued during the international games, we complained, now that the Prem stops, we complain.

Now, if rugby were to be supported at the level of football, we could have 70 person squads and just keep playing league games every week. We have to realise that rugby is too complicated for 90% of people, who want to watch a simple game with a bit of drama attached.

[Yareet]

It's the international games that are the problem. When the Premiership continued during the international games, we complained, now that the Prem stops, we complain.

Now, if rugby were to be supported at the level of football, we could have 70 person squads and just keep playing league games every week. We have to realise that rugby is too complicated for 90% of people, who want to watch a simple game with a bit of drama attached.

Completely agree with you except the last sentence

[dinogyro]

I shall amend my statement to 90% of people I know!

[poyntonshark]

Premier league football stops for International breaks. 3 between start of season and Christmas, then one more in March. They are only one weekend at a time though. Rugby with a shorter league season, stops twice for basically complete tournaments. Not sure there is much we can do with AI's, although they have basically only existed this century. The 6N, however, could surely be broken into smaller chunks.

[Yareet]

Premier league football stops for International breaks. 3 between start of season and Christmas, then one more in March. They are only one weekend at a time though. Rugby with a shorter league season, stops twice for basically complete tournaments. Not sure there is much we can do with AI's, although they have basically only existed this century. The 6N, however, could surely be broken into smaller chunks.

So to have a more consistent narrative for the Prem, we have to lose the narrative of the 6N?

The question then becomes which games are more important to players, viewers and finances.

I need to double check but I think more people still watch 6N than club rugby. (Some of) The money made by the RFU is obviously used to fund the game. Players generally seem pretty happy to prioritise a long international career.

Whilst we are all active fans of club rugby, on the whole we are in a minority.

[SSR]

Well if most of the money is not coming from watching fans, we might as well let the fans watch
in the warm and have a Summer Season ?

[Major Bloodnok]

It's the international games that are the problem. When the Premiership continued during the international games, we complained, now that the Prem stops, we complain.

It's not the stopping for the 6Nations and AIs that's the problem (for me). It's that the timing means we twice end up fitting in a single round of the Premiership between internationals and Europe. Move the European games slightly, so we can move those isolated rounds into the middle tranche, and the season would look a lot more coherent.

Also, look at the PRC. Each team plays eight games, home and away: four in the autumn, four in Feb/Mar. We've already played three of our home games. We get one home game during the 6N - that's incompetence in scheduling.

[poyntonshark]

Premier league football stops for International breaks. 3 between start of season and Christmas, then one more in March. They are only one weekend at a time though. Rugby with a shorter league season, stops twice for basically complete tournaments. Not sure there is much we can do with AI's, although they have basically only existed this century. The 6N, however, could surely be broken into smaller chunks.

So to have a more consistent narrative for the Prem, we have to lose the narrative of the 6N?

The question then becomes which games are more important to players, viewers and finances.

I need to double check but I think more people still watch 6N than club rugby. (Some of) The money made by the RFU is obviously used to fund the game. Players generally seem pretty happy to prioritise a long international career.

Whilst we are all active fans of club rugby, on the whole we are in a minority.

Not really losing the 6N Narrative at all. 2025 6N was played over 7 weekends so there's 2 weeks worth of gaps. Prem rugby could be played in those gaps. Current player rest regulations would remain unchanged, possibly tweaked to allow an extra enforced rest in the designated 10? week period.

We could of course carry on regardless, and feign shock when the Simon and Michelle Oranges of the world decide they no longer want to throw 8 million quid a year into a hole.

(No I'm not suggesting that monkeying with 6N is the only option, but club rugby in it's current form is clearly unsustainable)

[The Back Row]

The obvious restriction is that we cant play midweek games. So Europe picks up weekends and stops the Prem.

The European format is a joke, and needs ripping up and starting again.

Playing during the 6N was fine, clubs had to be wise enough to build a squad to cope with this and as for players, those who were selected for 6N got the financial upside, and those just below international level became highly valuable. Sadly we dont realise what we have until it is gone - now we have a couple of league games and then dont pick up the narratives for a couple of months - no one cares!

[Yareet]

Premier league football stops for International breaks. 3 between start of season and Christmas, then one more in March. They are only one weekend at a time though. Rugby with a shorter league season, stops twice for basically complete tournaments. Not sure there is much we can do with AI's, although they have basically only existed this century. The 6N, however, could surely be broken into smaller chunks.

So to have a more consistent narrative for the Prem, we have to lose the narrative of the 6N?

The question then becomes which games are more important to players, viewers and finances.

I need to double check but I think more people still watch 6N than club rugby. (Some of) The money made by the RFU is obviously used to fund the game. Players generally seem pretty happy to prioritise a long international career.

Whilst we are all active fans of club rugby, on the whole we are in a minority.

Not really losing the 6N Narrative at all. 2025 6N was played over 7 weekends so there's 2 weeks worth of gaps. Prem rugby could be played in those gaps. Current player rest regulations would remain unchanged, possibly tweaked to allow an extra enforced rest in the designated 10? week period.

We could of course carry on regardless, and feign shock when the Simon and Michelle Oranges of the world decide they no longer want to throw 8 million quid a year into a hole.

(No I'm not suggesting that monkeying with 6N is the only option, but club rugby in it's current form is clearly unsustainable)

I may be misunderstanding here but I'm not sure how having two random weeks of Prem during the 6N is any different than the random week we have now after the AIs.

If one were to devise a sensible season from scratch it would make far more sense to have Prem then Europe then 6N then the AIs/Nations Championship with a couple of weeks' break in between each comp and the PRC played during the 6N.

Given that the trans-hemispheric games are probably the hardest to move, I would work back from there.

AIs/Nations Championship - November 4 games
6N - August-October 5 games
Europe - May-July 9 games (back to the old 6 pool matches (H&A) + QF, SF, Final)
Prem - January-May 20 games (18 rounds + SF, Final)

Now all you need to do is convince players in the South of France they want to start their league in the middle of winter (to allow for the extra 8 games) and be playing crucial games in the height of Summer. Plus get broadcasters to ignore the sporting dead zone of February and instead put the 6N up against test match cricket and the start of the Premier League.

All whilst non-international players may not touch a ball for 6 months from July to January. I've to mitigate against this by having the PRC during the 6N but the likes of RdP could easily miss that if it becomes a development comp.

In fact, anyone in an international squad but not playing (AOF?) could well not get a game after the European run ends

[ledzepsfr]

Well if most of the money is not coming from watching fans, we might as well let the fans watch
in the warm and have a Summer Season ?

Summer season in UK not long enough to accommodate all of the fixtures unless you play 3 games/week


Seriously, have Prem Cup games for academy players only played midweek.
Have European games played midweek.
Do not have an international break. Yes, clubs with most international players will be penalised for that fact,

[poyntonshark]

You're obviously right properly planning the whole season would be the way to go, lots of differing interests to align though (largely the root of the whole problem). The odd weeks inbetween 6N games was to allow some form of continuity of Prem rugby, just 2 weeks between games instead of 7. This would obviously need to be combined with @Major Bloodnok's point of proper scheduling of home and away fixtures (two away fixtures in the odd weeks would do no one any favours).

Can't see 6N in August - October. It rules out the international summer tours and gets right royally screwed every 4 years by Lions. Can't really move summer tours to winter as Super Rugby is being played, they won't likely stop for international tour games. The SH season seems better organised, but is entirely international centric, super rugby is effectively an extended trial and top players (Aus and NZ at least) are centrally contracted.