By Sharkatak
#5465
What’s the situation for Paolo after tonight. Does sending off sufficient still exist? Seems to be a silly incident which probably deserved the card but does it warrant being banned for further games?
By Olyy
#5469
He'll be up in front of the commission as all red cards are automatic citings.
It's not uncommon for the commission to say that the on field decision was enough punishment - especially if the player apologises and looks sorry and doesn't eat too many biscuits etc.etc.etc.

No idea what will happen with this - can't remember seeing anything like it in recent memory
By eBike
#5472
Beg to differ.

Studs up, extended his leg towards an on coming player, direct contact to the head. Reflecting on RWC judgements I suspect he could be in a bit of bother.

No "serious" injury outcome (?) and Van Rensburg played on so that may be a factor.

However, that was very dangerous. Ridiculously dangerous.

We shall see.
User avatar
By Flumpty
#5476
Depending on his disciplinary record (which I seem to remember is good), I reckon that he'll get about 6 weeks for sticking his boot into another players face.
User avatar
By IrishShark
#5477
6 weeks judging by the only other incident of this nature.
By Sharkatak
#5479
Oddly enough woke up feeling a little less sympathetic. He definitely seemed to extend the leg, more than just a balance thing...
By Oldham Shark
#5488
Well I bet Paulo hopes Austin Healey is on the disciplinary panel. Healey said on the commentary "When you're in the air you can do whatever you like. If anything, that's a penalty to Wasps for Van Rensburg touching him in the air".
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#5490
To a certain extent AH is correct - had O Paolo not extended his leg he would have been fine hitting RJVR in the face. That's why players usully jump with their knees up.
User avatar
By Major Bloodnok
#5496
Personal opinion: you still have a duty of care. Learn to jump without a leading leg and studs exposed. If I were in charge of the laws, a forward extended leg with studs showing would be a mandatory red card if it makes contact anywhere on an opponent's body.
PappjeShark, Portsharks liked this
By SimonG
#5497
Oldham Shark wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:46 am
Well I bet Paulo hopes Austin Healey is on the disciplinary panel. Healey said on the commentary "When you're in the air you can do whatever you like. If anything, that's a penalty to Wasps for Van Rensburg touching him in the air".

I used to quite like Healey but now more and more he seems to want to take the contrary view just to be controversial. I've lost count of the number of times he has suggested a player could be in serious danger of a red card only for the replay to show no problem at all.

It's easy to see why he isn't required for European games and the World Cup.
By PappjeShark
#5503
Major Bloodnok wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:02 am
Personal opinion: you still have a duty of care. Learn to jump without a leading leg and studs exposed. If I were in charge of the laws, a forward extended leg with studs showing would be a mandatory red card if it makes contact anywhere on an opponent's body.
I entirely agree, Major. It’s a very cynical tactic and everyone that does it knows exactly what they’re doing.
Portsharks liked this
By ShawShark
#5505
Major Bloodnok wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:02 am
Learn to jump without a leading leg and studs exposed.
He did, he lifted his leg when he was already in the air, he extended his leg at the top/on the way down.

His cause wont be helped by what appeared to be sarcastically clapping the decision and laughing at the ref.
User avatar
By iBozz
#5539
I wasn’t there but I have seen photographs and based thereon the red appears totally justified.

The apparent laughing at the Referee’s decision is totally unacceptable and displays utter contempt of the officials and then seeming to be blowing the kiss at the spectators shows contempt for those who effectively pay towards his wages.

I used to admire him when he played at Heywood Road, but no longer.
User avatar
By Major Bloodnok
#5541
ShawShark wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:28 pm
Major Bloodnok wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:02 am
Learn to jump without a leading leg and studs exposed.
He did, he lifted his leg when he was already in the air, he extended his leg at the top/on the way down.
By "jump", I meant from the point of leaving the ground to landing again.
User avatar
By Flumpty
#5710
Flumpty wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:06 am
Depending on his disciplinary record (which I seem to remember is good), I reckon that he'll get about 6 weeks for sticking his boot into another players face.

cough, cough, ahem, ahem, cough, cough
From the BBC "as Flumpty predicted, Doggy gets 6 weeks off"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50412767
By chris1850
#5711
Flumpty wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:45 pm
Flumpty wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:06 am
Depending on his disciplinary record (which I seem to remember is good), I reckon that he'll get about 6 weeks for sticking his boot into another players face.

cough, cough, ahem, ahem, cough, cough
From the BBC "as Flumpty predicted, Doggy gets 6 weeks off"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50412767
Flumpty, could you possibly PM me this weekend's lottery numbers.......!?
By eBike
#5724
While some Wasp fans deem the 12 down to 6 weeks "harsh" and confuse consequences with intent they generally accept the findings.

A big shout out for Chris1850 who posted a very sensible summary on the Drunken Wasp site. Perhaps the Leicester Lip could take note.

Time to look forward to La Rochelle :-)
By Surbiton_Shark
#5728
Totally agree with IBozz - his reaction to the ref's decision was appalling

On a slightly different topic.....started with a slight disagreement with my son and the wearing of gumshields.......was Johan actually wearing a gumshield - it didn't look like it and on another note do all the pro's still wear gumshields?
User avatar
By Flumpty
#5730
chris1850 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:46 pm
Flumpty wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:45 pm
Flumpty wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:06 am
Depending on his disciplinary record (which I seem to remember is good), I reckon that he'll get about 6 weeks for sticking his boot into another players face.

cough, cough, ahem, ahem, cough, cough
From the BBC "as Flumpty predicted, Doggy gets 6 weeks off"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50412767
Flumpty, could you possibly PM me this weekend's lottery numbers.......!?
Once I have the right combination of ducks flying backwards, tealeves in cups and clouds making patterns in the sky, I'll drop you a line.
User avatar
By Flumpty
#5731
Surbiton_Shark wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:39 am
Totally agree with IBozz - his reaction to the ref's decision was appalling

On a slightly different topic.....started with a slight disagreement with my son and the wearing of gumshields.......was Johan actually wearing a gumshield - it didn't look like it and on another note do all the pro's still wear gumshields?
I don't think that he does wear a gumshield (have a quick shuftie at google images if you get the chance ), but I'm not sure & no, not all pros wear gumshields !
Stick by your guns and keep your son wearing his - its a lot easier if your sons team has a no gumshield, no rugby policy :rockon:
By Surbiton_Shark
#5738
Thanks Flumpty

Alas my son is no longer at the age of playing colt/junior rugby and he stopped listening to me a long time ago anyhow.....when he was a mini we had the same rules - no gumshield no game - I'll be surprised if any club doesn't

It did prompt us to discuss pro's wearing them and I noticed Johan's mouth after Paolo smacked him one
User avatar
By Flumpty
#5741
Surbiton_Shark wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:36 pm
Thanks Flumpty

Alas my son is no longer at the age of playing colt/junior rugby and he stopped listening to me a long time ago anyhow.....when he was a mini we had the same rules - no gumshield no game - I'll be surprised if any club doesn't

It did prompt us to discuss pro's wearing them and I noticed Johan's mouth after Paolo smacked him one
I come across a few Clubs/teams that don't have a no gumshield/no play policy - usually because someones little bundle of joy "doesn't like it" and the parents give in to them.
I also see from time to time entire teams that wera scrum caps as it is their teams (I don't think it is club wide) rule/policy which is very shaky ground.
As a related aside, I haven't seen anyone "skinned" with bladed boots for a while. I don't know if this is because the blasted things are no longer being used in M&J rugby, or because technology has moved on, or because players are actively checking their boots for sharp edges.
Imagine the damage to Johan PropCentres face if Doggy had been wearing bladed boots and one had a burred edge
By Van Cannonball
#5752
Just to make a counter argument, I tried resolutely to wear a gum shield back in my school playing days but it made me gag every time within seconds of putting it in. Zero chance I could’ve played whilst using one, and a harsh policy that would exclude kids from participating.

Rugby is a contact sport; I played for 7 years and had numerous injuries but never any kind of issue with teeth. I once had my shins kicked in after forgetting my guards, perhaps we should stop kids playing for missing other bits of kit too, or perhaps we could understand individuals have different issues and not put blanket bans on things?...
User avatar
By Flumpty
#5756
Van Cannonball wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:09 pm
Just to make a counter argument, I tried resolutely to wear a gum shield back in my school playing days but it made me gag every time within seconds of putting it in. Zero chance I could’ve played whilst using one, and a harsh policy that would exclude kids from participating.

Rugby is a contact sport; I played for 7 years and had numerous injuries but never any kind of issue with teeth. I once had my shins kicked in after forgetting my guards, perhaps we should stop kids playing for missing other bits of kit too, or perhaps we could understand individuals have different issues and not put blanket bans on things?...
"guards" !?!?!?!! I can't recall ever seeing them being used - I'll keep my eyes open !
The team that i'm mostly involved with has had several players who said that they couldn't wear a gumshield as it made them gag - but all persevered until they were comfortable. Fingers crossed, touch wood, black cat crossing the road etc etc, I've not seen any dental / jaw damage in 10 years.
By ale shark
#5757
Watching the world cup it surprised my how many players don't wear them anymore.
By Van Cannonball
#5760
Thanks for clearing that up, I obviously didn’t try hard enough...
User avatar
By Flumpty
#5761
Van Cannonball wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:45 pm
Thanks for clearing that up, I obviously didn’t try hard enough...
Or maybe persisted long enough :caffine:
When you say guards, do you mean shin guards ?
By Beardedshark
#5762
As a dentist I would say a gumshield (dentist made) is essential. Proof being, I melted mine by leaving it in my shorts while they were washed, thought I would be ok as only one game of the season left. Somehow managed to loose half of my front tooth. Muppet!

I think it’s the shop bought ones that fit poorly that make you gag. They don’t really work that well either because they are not close fitting enough to spread the impact.
By eBike
#5770
Swerving off the main thread but this caught my eye with regard to red cards. OK, it isn't directly comparable but serves to show what can and does happen when players lose the plot.

Perish the thought that something like this could happen (in rugby union). Personally I think this should lead to jail time but won't because 1. it's NFL 2. it's the USA 3. it's a sport riddled with 'roids. Just my opinion of course.

By Clutch
#5780
Jail time!!!

Ban for Paulo is ridiculous. But not unexpectedly so. Setting a precedent for something that’s never happened before nor will it again.
By DaveAitch
#5815
Beardedshark wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:59 am
As a dentist I would say a gumshield (dentist made) is essential. Proof being, I melted mine by leaving it in my shorts while they were washed, thought I would be ok as only one game of the season left. Somehow managed to loose half of my front tooth. Muppet!

I think it’s the shop bought ones that fit poorly that make you gag. They don’t really work that well either because they are not close fitting enough to spread the impact.
Your story is unfortunate. I found that wearing a gum shield (when a dental student) made me more aware of my teeth and I actually got that part of my face knocked more when I wore it, than in the all the years I played (and they amount to 30+) that I didn't wear one.

What is certainly true is that custom made gumshields fit much better than shop bought types. The gag reflex is a major problem to some people. Shop bought shields appear to be significantly worse in this regard.

There are very few properly conducted studies. There is a good rundown of gumshields here https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/35/2/81.

I have seen very few injuries to teeth from playing ruby. There have, however, been more players with fractured cheekbones, Le Fort fractures (where all the upper jaw becomes detached from the rest of the skull) or lower jaw fractures than those with just fractured teeth. Indeed (without it being in anyway a scientific survey) I have seen more injuries to teeth from horse riding, bikes or swimming than through rugby, and probably an equal number from tennis and hockey.

For me, anyone who is overly worried about damaging teeth (or any other injury) shouldn't be playing at all.
By AndaleManito
#5818
DaveAitch wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:06 am
Beardedshark wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:59 am
As a dentist I would say a gumshield (dentist made) is essential. Proof being, I melted mine by leaving it in my shorts while they were washed, thought I would be ok as only one game of the season left. Somehow managed to loose half of my front tooth. Muppet!

I think it’s the shop bought ones that fit poorly that make you gag. They don’t really work that well either because they are not close fitting enough to spread the impact.
Your story is unfortunate. I found that wearing a gum shield (when a dental student) made me more aware of my teeth and I actually got that part of my face knocked more when I wore it, than in the all the years I played (and they amount to 30+) that I didn't wear one.

What is certainly true is that custom made gumshields fit much better than shop bought types. The gag reflex is a major problem to some people. Shop bought shields appear to be significantly worse in this regard.

There are very few properly conducted studies. There is a good rundown of gumshields here https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/35/2/81.

I have seen very few injuries to teeth from playing ruby. There have, however, been more players with fractured cheekbones, Le Fort fractures (where all the upper jaw becomes detached from the rest of the skull) or lower jaw fractures than those with just fractured teeth. Indeed (without it being in anyway a scientific survey) I have seen more injuries to teeth from horse riding, bikes or swimming than through rugby, and probably an equal number from tennis and hockey.

For me, anyone who is overly worried about damaging teeth (or any other injury) shouldn't be playing at all.
Don't want to cause argument but I think that's a kinda irresponsible post to make. I used to play without a gum shield, caught a boot to the face and snapped two teeth that now have caps on. Bit of a freak injury sure but I know that had I worn a gumsheild it wouldn't have happened.

I feel like your comparison to other sports, whilst correct, is irrelevant to a discussion about whether one should wear a gumsheild when playing rugby.

Overall I think that there are injuries that can be prevented by wearing one, and I don't see the logic behind how wearing one makes you more susceptible to injury. Not disputing that poorly fitted gumsheilds are not going to be very effective, and that different people have a different gag reflex.
By Beardedshark
#5821
2 worst injuries I’ve had in practice were caused by horses, gum shield would have made no difference. Couple of bad ones by cricketers top edging into teeth, would have been helped by gumshields but it’s only old fogies like me there days who don’t wear helmets.
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