[bartyMJ]

Thought I'd come to a quieter corner for my attempt at catharsis.

I've been a Saracens fan all my life. Admittedly not as long in the tooth as many fans, but since my grandpa played, captained and coached the club in the 50s and 60s it's always been part of the family. I'm old enough to remember some of the really tough days flirting with relegation, massive turnover of coaches and players, then the massive upheaval in the squad and finally putting together a winning team. (Mostly legally?)

It seems we'll likely never know exactly what was reported to the SCM and what wasn't. My pretty basic maths on the amount we've been fined and the punishment rules in the cap suggests the only issue is with the co-investment partnerships with 5 players; without those we may well be under the cap. But I have no idea.

To be honest, for me the points deduction and fine are pretty irrelevant (regardless of whether you think they're lenient or harsh). The biggest hit to us as a club, and particularly as fans, is the potentially irreparable damage done to our reputation, caused at best by Nigel Wray's poor judgement, and at worst by a brazen effort to cheat the system and claim it as a force for good.

The worst thing for me, is that Nigel Wray has genuinely done a huge amount for the welfare of our players, the benefit of the community, and the general feel at Saracens over 25 years. All players are supported in some way in their post-rugby careers, or through their legitimate side-projects (Tiki-Tonga Coffee, Wolfpack Lager, George Kruis and Dominic Day's CBD, etc.). There is a genuine family feel to the club, the women's team are integrated and well looked after in a developing game, the Saracens Sport Foundation do some amazing things for charity, the new Saracens High School is a massive boost for a disadvantaged community. All of this is completely overshadowed now. Whether or not some of the more extreme accusations from partizan fans are unwarranted, the fact is the situation as it is means they can be made.

We'll probably lose sponsorship, attendances will drop further, and there will be less of a drive to support the club. That in turn could affect the resources offered to the likes of the Foundation and School above who could be among the real victims.

I don't think it's easy to say what history would have looked like if everything was above board. If it is simply the existence of the co-investments, perhaps our squad and success might not look any different. If indeed there is more to it perhaps not.

Either way, fans of every other club in the league have every right to be angry and upset. More so than me; although I'm feeling the same for different reasons, that the reputation of the club I have supported so wholeheartedly all my life has been ruined. Normally I'd be wearing a big Saracens puffer jacket to work. Right now I can't wear the badge with pride. The worst thing about all of this, however much wrong has been done, the decisions made by Nigel Wray (and whoever else involved) will have the biggest effect on those that have zero input, the fans, both Saracens and opposition.

The atmosphere at our matches will now quite rightly be horrendous, although no doubt a lot of "banter" / abuse will be directed at our fans, and we'll just have to sit there and take it. Can't say I'm looking forward to it, but I still have my season ticket, and I've been coming to Allianz Park (and Vicarage Road) for too long and invested too much emotion in my local team just to rip it up and walk away. I'll still be there, cheering the boys on, but I'll be hurting. Because what else can I do?

[TeflonTed]

Fine post barty.

The majority of supporters of other clubs will surely support your view, it’s not the Sarries supporters‘ fault, and when you come to 6Ways I’d like to think you’ll be welcomed as individuals.

But we all have our minorities, like the clown on your SN site who suggests you should withdraw your England players from international duty to ensure you win all remaining fixtures “with a bonus point”.

That sort of stuff will wind up our Mr Angries, and I’m afraid there will be some unpleasant encounters.

Who knows which way it will go, appealing the judgement may be seen as mistake by many.

[chris1850]

Barty. Herein is the real shame of this whole fiasco. Whatever the rights and wrongs of what has gone on, it is the fans (of all clubs) who suffer. On this occasion it is Sarries that appear to have been caught out, but there for the grace of God, potentially, go we all.

We all want our club to be successful and for that success to be achieved honestly by winning fairly on a level playing field. If the games and trophies that Sarries have won over the years can be attributed, at least in part, to a deliberate flouting of the cap rules then supporters of all clubs (including Sarries) can justifiably feel cheated and upset.

There are many benefits of professionalism in sport and your post detailing the off field activities of your club cites many such activities. Sadly, you are right, these efforts will now be overshadowed and the reputation of your club tarnished. Unfortunately, the downside of increased professionalism in sport also increases the pressure to win at any cost and, sadly, on this occasion it would seem that Sarries have overstepped that line.

It is the owners, not the fans, who should feel the indignation of the rugby community. The game needs every club in the Premiership to prosper and thrive, otherwise we have no game ultimately. The lesson to be learn from this whole affair is that for the salary cap to be effective in its objectives, then the regulations that attempt to enforce it need to be vigorously examined so as to eliminate any further such 'loopholes'. Further, we should demand far greater transparency into the financial relationships between clubs, their associates and players. We cannot rely on the system to be self-policing.

As one fan to another, I genuinely wish you well. The time when you can feel proud of your club and its achievements will come round again.

[patgadd]

Barty, I can only echo the last two posts. Supporters have done nothing wrong, and as for the players - it's a short life, and you grab what you can while you can.

[ExRAFShark]

Barty,
I would hope that any banter is light-hearted and in fun. At some grounds, you know it won't be, but hopefully the reasonable majority will drown out the noisy minority. As a fan of a club that has been accused of dubious approaches to signings in the past, I am aware that some supporters are not backwards at pushing their opinions about perceived wrongdoings. What I have often pointed out is that I am a supporter, I was not party to any dealings etc, I just want to support my club. I'm pretty sure that most of us know that you, the supporters, have done absolutely nothing wrong and you will still be able to enjoy the banter and friendships at every other ground.

[bartyMJ]

Thanks all. Sadly I'm watching with increasing dismay at some of our more 'keyboard warrior' Sarries fans doing their best to remove any trace of sympathy that we have.

I'll be honest, I still think there's an element of us being hung out to dry by PRL unless the full report is released into exactly what has led to the penalty (is it simply the co-investments that we genuinely thought were outside the cap, or have we actually been totally devious?). But that just seems like hopeful delusion and isn't going to help anyone. Nothing short of total transparency will do for us now.

Sadly we can't expect to get off lightly, 1000 gestures of sympathy (and I do appreciate yours) will always be drowned out by one negative. It's just human nature unfortunately. And sadly one person's light-hearted banter is another person's hurtful abuse.

I'm by no means a cry for help but have never been the strongest person mentally - will be tough to "man up" and take it come the next home match, and there's bound to be more fragile people out there than me that will struggle if it becomes a "football crowd".

[Van Cannonball]

Echo others thoughts that it’s not the fans fault, and any recriminations should not be aimed at them, other than usual rugby friendly banter.

The one thing I’d pick up though is you seem to feel that the co-investments could be deemed a separate issue from salary, whereas it seems fairly obvious that a player may accept a lower salary than otherwise desired that helps the total to be within the cap, if they know they have an alternative income stream.

Secondly, if an investment such as this was deemed separate and ok, then it’s effectively a free-for-all for all clubs and the cap is essentially pointless.

Anyway, I hope it’s not as bad as you fear for the club and community.

[The Ledbury one]

I think that the true test will be on Saturday at Castle Grim. Unfortunate timing
I personally hold nothing against Sarries fans, and any other fans/supporters I just hope that “banter” remains that, just friendly banter for the sake of the game and not just Sarries.

[TeflonTed]

I think that the true test will be on Saturday at Castle Grim. Unfortunate timing
I personally hold nothing against Sarries fans, and any other fans/supporters I just hope that “banter” remains that, just friendly banter for the sake of the game and not just Sarries.

And, of course, the game is being televised live on BTS. (Was it already scheduled or is it a BT reactive move?)

I imagine some of the more pointy-headed denizens of The Shed are even now penning sarcastic chants, scribbling banners and practising their Eeee-Awwwss.

[bartyMJ]

Sorry Van C, probably getting my words a bit muddled in my rambling - was just stating that's the line the club seems to have gone down, with the other end of the spectrum being total deviance/cheating. Without any detail into the panel's report I don't want to go for too much conjecture on what our chairman was actually thinking.

But, clearly a contribution to an investment company (for Farrell, Itoje, Wigglesworth and VunipolaX2) is seen as a different matter to support and advice on the other players businesses (e.g. for Kruis, Day, Spencer etc.), and that plus a presence at the stadium for Brad Barritt's coffee company, Wyles/Hargreaves brewery, Rhodes' gin etc.
What I would like to know is where PRL/the panel have drawn a line between all those things, particularly as they have been very public for far longer than the scope of the investigation.

Believe the game this weekend was always scheduled to be televised, very unfortunate timing. But we'll just have to live with it - I'll be watching from inside by protective bubble.