By Pooneil
#14435
On the subject of being totally unable to accept any other opinions… :whistle:

I see the latest thread on this subject on the Exeter Forum, like all those before it, has also now been deleted.

The thread, titled ‘Here we go again’ – an indication of how many times the moderator there has resorted to censorship of the subject – was for the best part well balanced, reasoned and civil. The moderator actually claimed to be open to (at least considering) ‘change’ if there were any evidence of indigenous voices opposed to the Exeter brand (something I’d already provided in the previous thread that was deleted), yet when links to those indigenous voices where again provided, the ad hominem and selective censorship began. I missed the final stages, but I guess once the moderator had emboldened others to again dismiss the argument as nothing but PC snowflakery, it became necessary to then delete the contrary evidence, and then the whole thread.

Conversely, the group of Exeter supports who are calling for an end to the ‘Indian’ brand took the time and effort to open up the debate and listen to those actually effected, by hosting a Q&A with a panel of Indigenous Peoples living in the UK and US.

Their voices can be heard here.

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By SimonG
#14449
Pooneil wrote:On the subject of being totally unable to accept any other opinions… :whistle:

I see the latest thread on this subject on the Exeter Forum, like all those before it, has also now been deleted.

The thread, titled ‘Here we go again’ – an indication of how many times the moderator there has resorted to censorship of the subject – was for the best part well balanced, reasoned and civil. The moderator actually claimed to be open to (at least considering) ‘change’ if there were any evidence of indigenous voices opposed to the Exeter brand (something I’d already provided in the previous thread that was deleted), yet when links to those indigenous voices where again provided, the ad hominem and selective censorship began. I missed the final stages, but I guess once the moderator had emboldened others to again dismiss the argument as nothing but PC snowflakery, it became necessary to then delete the contrary evidence, and then the whole thread.

Conversely, the group of Exeter supports who are calling for an end to the ‘Indian’ brand took the time and effort to open up the debate and listen to those actually effected, by hosting a Q&A with a panel of Indigenous Peoples living in the UK and US.

Their voices can be heard here.

.
I believe the thread was deleted due to the way you conducted yourself particularly the way you were rubbishing those who didn't share your opinion. Your attitude and behaviour was causing problems.

What you haven't said was that the moderator there posted that he was removing all of the branding threads (both for and against) and asked that the branding issue be left until after an official decision is made.
https://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/rea ... 8,16801259

The fact that you have come back here to rubbish the moderator of another message board is the perfect example of why your behaviour antagonises others.

If and when the branding is changed (and I personally hope it will be) it will be despite your efforts and certainly not because of them.
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By Pooneil
#14471
SimonG wrote:I believe the thread was deleted due to…
You believe?
Isn’t that the point? There is now no way of knowing what took place, and no way for people to draw their own conclusions, because any attempt to discuss the issue in a rational grown up manner is simply not tolerated on the Exeter fan forum. The same seems to be the case on the Facebook and Twitter pages, pretty much in line with the club themselves refusing point blank to discuss the subject for the last 20 years.

How are Exeter fans and others supposed to make an informed decision on what steps the Club should take if a handful of people take it upon themselves to deny any public discussion?

Also, kinda hard to believe the ‘respect and honour’ defence when so much effort is put into pretending that objections from the indigenous people you claim to respect and honour don’t exist.

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User avatar
By MikeGC
#14473
Pooneil wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:14 pm
SimonG wrote:I believe the thread was deleted due to…
You believe?
Isn’t that the point? There is now no way of knowing what took place, and no way for people to draw their own conclusions, because any attempt to discuss the issue in a rational grown up manner is simply not tolerated on the Exeter fan forum. The same seems to be the case on the Facebook and Twitter pages, pretty much in line with the club themselves refusing point blank to discuss the subject for the last 20 years.

How are Exeter fans and others supposed to make an informed decision on what steps the Club should take if a handful of people take it upon themselves to deny any public discussion?

Also, kinda hard to believe the ‘respect and honour’ defence when so much effort is put into pretending that objections from the indigenous people you claim to respect and honour don’t exist.

.
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I share your concerns w.r.t. cultural misappropriation but I'm not sure why you think that The Chiefs message board or Faecesbook or Twatter pages would be organised democratically. It's their stuff - upset them and be deleted.
Interestingly I note that the Washington NFL franchise are about to change their name.
By ageinghoody
#14475
There's no compelling reason to change the name. The Celts had chiefs, as indeed did just about every early society. Although they certainly didn't use an English word to describe them, and neither did indigenous Americans (yes I know, but it will do for now).

It's the logo/emblem that is an indefensible insult, deliberate or not. Adapt it to suggest a figure representative of the region's own history, e.g. replace the war-bonnet with an appropriate head-covering and/or hairstyle. A Google (other search engines are available)Image search for "Celtic Chief" brings up plenty of appropriate suggestions. Celts also painted their faces before battle, so no cause for complaint there.

That's a start anyway.
By SimonG
#14476
Pooneil wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:14 pm
SimonG wrote:I believe the thread was deleted due to…
You believe?
Isn’t that the point? There is now no way of knowing what took place, and no way for people to draw their own conclusions, because any attempt to discuss the issue in a rational grown up manner is simply not tolerated on the Exeter fan forum. The same seems to be the case on the Facebook and Twitter pages, pretty much in line with the club themselves refusing point blank to discuss the subject for the last 20 years.

How are Exeter fans and others supposed to make an informed decision on what steps the Club should take if a handful of people take it upon themselves to deny any public discussion?

Also, kinda hard to believe the ‘respect and honour’ defence when so much effort is put into pretending that objections from the indigenous people you claim to respect and honour don’t exist.

.
I know what took place because I saw the way you behaved on the thread and to say "any attempt to discuss the issue in a rational grown up manner is simply not tolerated on the Exeter fan forum" is the height of hypocrisy. It was your total inability to conduct yourself in a grown up manner which ended the discussion.

Coming on here to rubbish another forum simply confirms this lack of grown up behaviour.

As I said previously if and when the branding is changed (and I personally hope it will be) it will be despite your efforts and certainly not because of them as you continue to demonstrate.
By Pooneil
#14797
Latest update:
The Exeter board have decided to drop the foam mascot character, but are insisting that the rest of the racial stereotyping is “in fact highly respectful”.

To me this seems like the worst, and most puzzling, of all possible positions they could have taken. Up to this point there has been an (albeit poor) excuse of harmless ignorance. But now Exeter have, to an extent, acknowledged the existence of decades of indigenous opposition to ‘Indian’ mascots, stereotypes and brands, while at the same time effectively claiming that the Exeter boardroom know more than, or have the right to dictate to, those same indigenous voices about which racial stereotypes of them are offensive and which are not, and generally how such stereotypes should be received, whether indigenous people like it or not.

I imagined they would do something like drop (which they did) the clear mockery foam mascot and announce a consultation period of unspecified length, while in fact letting the dust settle, adjusting the finances and seeing how things pan out. From a purely public relations point of view, they’ve firmly placed their flag on a very vulnerable hilltop with the ‘in fact highly respectful’ claim. That kind of hubris came back to bite the Washington Redskins after stating they would “never, you can print that in all caps” change the name or brand. Anyone with even half an eye on the situation in the US right now will recognise that the Exeter board have painted their players, fans and wider community into a bit of a corner.

Looks like this battle is going to run for longer than many people had hoped. :thinking:
By SimonG
#14829
Reaction from Exeter much as expected bearing in mind the conduct of some of those campaigning for change who effectively shot themselves in the foot. Tony Rowe was never going to respond in the way they wanted after their nonsense.

I suspect the club will gradually introduce re-branding in the next year or so. Unless the campaigners shoot themselves in the other foot of course.
By Pooneil
#20296
Exeter Rugby club making headlines again.

November is Native American Heritage Month, described by The National Congress of American Indians as:
[A] time to celebrate rich and diverse cultures, traditions, and histories and to acknowledge the important contributions of Native people. Heritage Month is also an opportune time to educate the general public about tribes, to raise a general awareness about the unique challenges Native people have faced both historically and in the present, and the ways in which tribal citizens have worked to conquer these challenges.

Racial stereotyping is not an honour and, contrary to Exeter’s official position, certainly not “in fact highly respectful”.
As summed up by Illuminatives, a Native led initiative (one of many), founded to ‘challenge the negative narrative that surrounds Native communities and ensure accurate and authentic portrayals of Native communities are present in pop culture and media’.
If sports leagues truly want to condemn racism, as they have stated, they must eradicate Native mascots, team names, insensitive gestures and the subsequent racist behavior of fans. We are calling upon politicians, athletes, like-minded organizations, and fans to stand together to declare that racism is racism and it will no longer be tolerated.

Still ‘no comment’ from Exeter Chiefs, nor any indication that they are prepared to discuss the issue with any of the Indigenous groups or individuals that they claim to be honouring.
By GeorgeJordan
#20408
Exeter's dream season continued with a hard fought victory over the resurgent Wasps at Twickenham, in the pouring rain! The Gallagher Premiership Final saw two outstanding tries, one by Henry Slade and the other by Jacob Umaga.
Image
I'd be interested in your thoughts as to whether the Wasps ploy wasn't necessarily to hunt the dropped catch from Woodburn but to actually change Exeter's behaviour so that they could do something else later in the game (although I'm not sure what - maybe get W'burn flatter and isolate Hogg or similar).
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