By Underdog
#17290
Since we're in a bit of a break now, and partly inspired by my frustrations at how well Matavesi played against us for Bath, I thought I'd ask the question:

Which ex player do you wish had met their potential with us?

I remember having high hopes for Ben Howard. He seemed like the sort of willowy, rangy full back we now have in Nanai, and feel that he was unfortunate to be trying to get into the team at the same time as Pennell was hitting his straps. He was part of a very good England u20 team without looking out of place.

Tom Wood also comes to mind. He was superb for Saints and England in the early to mid 2010s, and would have been a great nuisance at the ruck in our favour, as well as helping to vary our lineout.
User avatar
By west brom warrior
#17305
Andy Gomarsall would be right up there in terms of regrets for me, if he had clicked with us we may not find ourselves in the long term struggle we have had.
By ROLLO
#17324
WBW funnily enough Gommersall came to my mind as well . He went on the play for England after he left us. Had we kept Keast with Andy and Drahm signed for the second season in the prem , plus Le Roux and Rawlinson , we were well set. I have sadi before we have been struggling to catch up since.
The other player that springs to mind is Blair Cowen.
By Underdog
#17334
Shoulda woulda coulda XV

15. Howard
14.
13.
12.
11. Benjamin
10.
9. Gomarsall

1.
2.
3.
4. Schofield
5. Vui
6. Wood
7. Cowan
8.

Euan Murray at 3?
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By patgadd
#17335
TeflonTed wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:12 pm
Miles Benjamin.

Tigers broke him.
Fair point, though it could be argued that he did reach his potential with us; Tigers certainly broke him. I talked to him earlier in the season at Sixways (my wife worked with his mum); there was talk of ex-players taking on some sort of ambassadorial role, and he was looking forward to being part of it, though it seems to have fallen through.
By BehindThePosts
#17336
Not sure this one counts as he was a beast whilst he was with us. But I'd have liked to see much more of Christian Scotland-Williamson.

I believe he's been released from the Steelers as of July this year.
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By patgadd
#17338
BehindThePosts wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:11 pm
Not sure this one counts as he was a beast whilst he was with us. But I'd have liked to see much more of Christian Scotland-Williamson.

I believe he's been released from the Steelers as of July this year.
Now that might be worth a punt....
User avatar
By Abmatt
#17340
Val RP?

10. Andy Goode? Could have done with him for a bit longer

8. Matt kivesic? Went too early and we missed some of his prime years. At least he came back.
By FlipFlop
#17364
Creevy

Matt Mullan?

Surely Schofield is missing the irony emoji but i applaud the suggestion to raise the humour levels
By Underdog
#17372
I think Schofield fits though it's certainly possible the joke went over my head! If he had played to his potential, he would have been exactly what we needed at the time, so I say he goes in.

Kvesic a no for me as we're yet to see what he will achieve while still with us. This team is all about day dreaming and pining for what could have been.

All according to my arbitrary rules...
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By patgadd
#17377
FlipFlop wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:36 pm
Creevy

Matt Mullan?

Surely Schofield is missing the irony emoji but i applaud the suggestion to raise the humour levels
'Tis yerself who's missing the point. Creevy did fulfil his potential with us, as did Matt Mullan and Andy Goode. Underdog has grasped the point perfectly; Schofield, along with an All Black winger whose name escapes me, did not.
By Underdog
#17380
It was on a coin toss there FF as to who had goofed.

Gear goes in.
By FlipFlop
#17388
Underdog wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:44 pm
It was on a coin toss there FF as to who had goofed.

Gear goes in.
Many on here will have been confused easily by my thought processes (or lack of). Sorry for confusion.
Last edited by FlipFlop on Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By TeflonTed
#17402
FlipFlop wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:42 pm
Joe Carlisle
I’d argue that he did reach his potential with us, and was never any better afterwards.

The hugely frustrating thing about Joe was his total inability to cure his only weakness, being an inability to read the game and take clever options. He too often seemed to be wanting to try something spectacular, which seldom if ever came off. Notably the long floated passes, and speculative chips ahead, sometimes in his own 22 trying to gather and run the length to score heroically under the posts.

At his best he was a capable and exciting attacker, and he could tackle, and he could kick, but his error rate on speculative schoolboy “show-off” moves was far too high, and something he sadly never overcame.
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By patgadd
#17407
Underdog, you seem to have disturbed a real hornets' nest here*. Let's agree, then. that we are talking about those who:

(a) did not reach their potential because they were (in our opinion) taking a pension
(b) reached their potential with other teams later, either because they simply grew better or possibly because other coaches got more out of them
(c) were only internationals because their country had nothing better to offer at the time or
(d) never really did reach the potential everyone thought they had.

Here, then, based on copy, paste and revise, are my suggestions:

15. Howard
14.Gear
13.
12.
11.
10. Carlisle
9. Gomarsall

1. Val Rapava Ruskin
2.
3. Murray
4. Schofield
5.
6. Wood
7.
8.
Anybody care to fill in some gaps?

* If I were a pedant, a show-off or a sycophant wishing to impress Latin scholar A38, which of course I'm not, I might have quoted Henry VIII: Non est bonum irritare crabrones. Good job I'm not that sort, eh?
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By TVM
#17408
Aaah Joe Carlisle.

He had hands direct from the gods - but the decision making capacity of a teenage boy climing out of a window having been caught by his paramour's father.
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By FlipFlop
#17410
Hal Luscombe :whistle:

Alex Crockett

If we're feeling shaky about Joe, then maybe throw Willie Walker* in as a replacement

As previously suggested, T'eo could easily slot in as could probably fit 2-3 of the criteria set out by Patgadd

*Carlos Spencer was who Glaws got and then we got Walker, but not reflected in my earlier post where i jumped straight to Carlo :doh:
Last edited by FlipFlop on Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By patgadd
#17414
Ah, Underdog's list is beginning to take shape now, with a full set of backs:

15. Howard
14. Gear
13. Crockett (?)
12. Te'o
11. Luscombe
10. Carlisle
9. Gomarsall

Some spaces left in the pack, though it would be unfair to add names just for the sake of it; perhaps that's it.

1. Val Rapava Ruskin
2.
3. Murray
4. Schofield
5.
6. Wood
7.
8.
By A38
#17420
I have lost touch with the purpose of this thread but didn't that well known fly fisherman J R Hartley once play at Worcester?
By Underdog
#17431
When I started the thread, I thought that players go into the team if you always harboured hopes that they would go on to be one of those players that we all love and then they never did.

Patgadd's rules work well.

I can remember Adam Balding signed for us having left Tigers in their pomp. I was really excited to see that sort of edge in our back row but he ended up being a bit of a damp squib.
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By TeflonTed
#17441
Surely Naughty Dylan, the Rotorua biter/puncher/gouger/swearist fits Pats’s 2) perfectly.
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By patgadd
#17451
FlipFlop wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:52 pm
Jake Abbott
Surely Jake Abbott always played his heart out for us. The trouble was that he went for everything, which meant he spent a lot of the time injured.
By FlipFlop
#17453
patgadd wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:36 pm
FlipFlop wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:52 pm
Jake Abbott
Surely Jake Abbott always played his heart out for us. The trouble was that he went for everything, which meant he spent a lot of the time injured.
He’d flirted with an England shirt and I don’t doubt his enthusiasm one bit, but I personally don’t think he reached the longer term demonstration of how good he was.

We seemed to be light in the Backrow on the Shoulda Woulda Coulda Squad
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#17455
Saltire wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:52 pm
Ben Clarke at No 8.
He had 40 England caps and was a triple British Lion before coming to us for a 2 season pension.

I reckon he’d peaked and passed his potential by then!
By Saltire
#17458
No Teflon - going by patgad's " rules " as endorsed by thread's originator, Underdog:

" (a) did not reach their potential because they were (in our opinion) taking a pension"
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#17469
Saltire wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:25 pm
No Teflon - going by patgad's " rules " as endorsed by thread's originator, Underdog:

" (a) did not reach their potential because they were (in our opinion) taking a pension"
Unclear guidance then. Clarke was, by definition, taking his pension, however well, or not, he played for us. His status as a pensioner is undoubted,it’s his performance for us, and later elsewhere, that is in question.

And as a pensioner, and therefore most likely past his best, his potential (implied best possible level of performance) for us may have actually been reached, he just wasn’t as good as he had previously been. In order to prove that any player had failed to reach his future potential while playing for us, he must surely be seen to play better elsewhere later.

I respectfully request to be considered for the post of chief rule writer. I also request that when Patgadd replies to this, which he will, and probably in Latin, he should be told that here we speak the Queen’s English, not a language previously spoken by a bunch of skirt wearing paedophiliac pasta munching eyeties. 😀
User avatar
By patgadd
#17470
TeflonTed wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:02 am
In order to prove that any player had failed to reach his future potential while playing for us, he must surely be seen to play better elsewhere later.

I respectfully request to be considered for the post of chief rule writer. I also request that when Patgadd replies to this, which he will, and probably in Latin, he should be told that here we speak the Queen’s English, not a language previously spoken by a bunch of skirt wearing paedophiliac pasta munching eyeties. 😀
The first point is very important, or as they say in management speak, key.

As to the second point, it suffers by being posited by somebody who speaks a language, long extinct in civilised society, which requires the mouth to be filled with phlegm before uttering a word, and was previously spoken by a bunch of leek wearing seaweed munching taffs. Despite wasting those years normally devoted to education on learning this strange and useless hawking, he appears to have missed out on absorbing the universal language of botany, medicine, and indeed all sciences- hiatus maxime deflendus.

:dance:
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