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I've mentioned this before on this topic (elsewhere on here I think) but the advantage of making it obvious if looked into while not shouting about it is that you have plausible deniability - "look, we might not have fully disclosed, but we can't have been hiding it because..." which would help in mitigation. It's the smart play (billionaires and their lawyers tend to go for those - reward with mitigated risk) - especially if they've potentially got lucky before - if they'd tried to obfuscate and got caught out they'd be on a hiding to nothing. If not - as you've suggested "we'll change the rules but just a slap on the wrists"Van Cannonball wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:34 pmIt looks to me that they’ve genuinely believed this is outside of the cap, or else why make the investments so glaringly obvious. On the other hand it’s a clear financial benefit from the club so how could this not be factored in?
Logically you’d think they must have a significant punishment, but I think it’s more likely a slap on the wrist and a precedent is now set to say points deduction if done again now that the rules are clear...
TeflonTed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:12 amInteresting comments all.
I’m tending to see the academy issue and the joint ventures with senior players as 2 separate issues.
Highlighting the unfairness of spending time, cost and energy developing youngsters only to see them moving on for bigger money tugs at the moral heartstrings.....and we don’t need that one pointing out do we?
Why should the Pro14 be polluted with their presence?FlipFlop wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:53 pmIf the alleged events were over several seasons, maybe 35 points deduct should be over this and he next 2 seasons too.
Feel sorry in some respects for Sarries fans about this issue but they have ridden the wave of success the alleged breach has enabled including the ability to have 2 very strong 15 man squads when most can muster 1 or 1 and a bit.
Zero risk of them being relegated even with the ‘ handicap, score and top 6 will be trickier than normal.
Could Mr Wray use this as a reason to generate interest in a break away league or to add to Pro 14 league or similar. Will playing staff be cut / released to keep within limits?
Let’s see how the appeal goes
Ha! Not our problem. Would solve the 13 team prem nicely, let Falcons back in and shut the door.SimonG wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:28 pmWhy should the Pro14 be polluted with their presence?FlipFlop wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:53 pmIf the alleged events were over several seasons, maybe 35 points deduct should be over this and he next 2 seasons too.
Feel sorry in some respects for Sarries fans about this issue but they have ridden the wave of success the alleged breach has enabled including the ability to have 2 very strong 15 man squads when most can muster 1 or 1 and a bit.
Zero risk of them being relegated even with the ‘ handicap, score and top 6 will be trickier than normal.
Could Mr Wray use this as a reason to generate interest in a break away league or to add to Pro 14 league or similar. Will playing staff be cut / released to keep within limits?
Let’s see how the appeal goes
A bit harsh on our Celtic and Italian friends TT!TeflonTed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:35 pmHa! Not our problem. Would solve the 13 team prem nicely, let Falcons back in and shut the door.SimonG wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:28 pmWhy should the Pro14 be polluted with their presence?FlipFlop wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:53 pmIf the alleged events were over several seasons, maybe 35 points deduct should be over this and he next 2 seasons too.
Feel sorry in some respects for Sarries fans about this issue but they have ridden the wave of success the alleged breach has enabled including the ability to have 2 very strong 15 man squads when most can muster 1 or 1 and a bit.
Zero risk of them being relegated even with the ‘ handicap, score and top 6 will be trickier than normal.
Could Mr Wray use this as a reason to generate interest in a break away league or to add to Pro 14 league or similar. Will playing staff be cut / released to keep within limits?
Let’s see how the appeal goes
Still feel sorry for most of the supporters, not their fault. But the arrogance of Nigel Wray in cockily claiming that investments and salaries are different, just in case us stupid people didn’t understand, is an insult.
I didn’t suggest that Iwanted Sarries to go to Pro 14 or create a breakaway league- merely suggested that Wray might have a huff and choose to do it if the appeal fails.SimonG wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:28 pmWhy should the Pro14 be polluted with their presence?FlipFlop wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:53 pmIf the alleged events were over several seasons, maybe 35 points deduct should be over this and he next 2 seasons too.
Feel sorry in some respects for Sarries fans about this issue but they have ridden the wave of success the alleged breach has enabled including the ability to have 2 very strong 15 man squads when most can muster 1 or 1 and a bit.
Zero risk of them being relegated even with the ‘ handicap, score and top 6 will be trickier than normal.
Could Mr Wray use this as a reason to generate interest in a break away league or to add to Pro 14 league or similar. Will playing staff be cut / released to keep within limits?
Let’s see how the appeal goes
I didn't say otherwise. I simply said the Pro14 shouldn't be polluted with their presence (should they attempt to join).FlipFlop wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:44 pmI didn’t suggest that Iwanted Sarries to go to Pro 14 or create a breakaway league- merely suggested that Wray might have a huff and choose to do it if the appeal fails.SimonG wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:28 pmWhy should the Pro14 be polluted with their presence?FlipFlop wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:53 pmIf the alleged events were over several seasons, maybe 35 points deduct should be over this and he next 2 seasons too.
Feel sorry in some respects for Sarries fans about this issue but they have ridden the wave of success the alleged breach has enabled including the ability to have 2 very strong 15 man squads when most can muster 1 or 1 and a bit.
Zero risk of them being relegated even with the ‘ handicap, score and top 6 will be trickier than normal.
Could Mr Wray use this as a reason to generate interest in a break away league or to add to Pro 14 league or similar. Will playing staff be cut / released to keep within limits?
Let’s see how the appeal goes
The article confirms what we all suspected, a major pr push to manage the news.A38 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:30 amAnd more here:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50407548
And since when exactly did anyone make any money err.... err... I mean progress... when people started seeing things for exactly what they are?
I don’t think it was an appeal as such, more a verification that the proper procedures had been followed.W4rriorz1980 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:45 pmDid Sarries run the risk of further sanctions if they failed an appeal? A further points deduction? A top up on the fine?