By A38
#12853
It will be interesting to see what happens to the 30 June / 1 July contract issue.

In short, will Matt K play for Exeter or Worcester if the rump of the season is actually played in August and thereafter - and which club will pay him?

The same thought applies to coaches as well as players.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12856
Yes, contractual nightmare. And what about scheduling?

There are 9 rounds left to complete the season. The 20/21 season was due to start when? Weekend of Sep 4/5/6 at a guess?

How do they propose to schedule the remaining 9 games I wonder? If they play one a week that takes us to weekend of Oct 9/10/11, leaving the 20/21 season to start on Oct 16/17/18. Then what?

Or do they propose to go to midweek games? And how does that impact on smaller squads?

Sounds pretty complicated to me, anyone know what the schedule proposals are?

At least there’ll be some new rugby to watch, even if only on TV. Have to say the historic highlights/replays on offer haven’t done it for me.
User avatar
By patgadd
#12858
Daft, I call it (and anybody who can remember where that quote comes from has to be pretty ancient).
By A38
#12859
There are some clues here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52933897 : as to what might be happening.

Particularly here:-

"All three will become Bath players as and when the 2020-21 season begins after Premiership Rugby confirmed its intention to re-start the current season on 15 August following the coronavirus lockdown."

This seems to imply that the rump of the 2019/2020 season will be played with the squads (and coaches?) from that season.

As ever, we wait and see, face mask and two yard tapes at the ready.
User avatar
By Abmatt
#12867
From what AS has been saying he seems to see it the other way and players/coaches will come/go.
User avatar
By Abmatt
#12869
@TeflonTed I agree re the rounds left. From stating we were going to be the first sport back in action we are now the last? I can see a few rounds of games being cancelled and a points system figured out. Perhaps call them all draws.
I think they’ve gone for August to:
a) see if the situation changes again for the worse
b)to see how the return to play goes in other sports and learn lessons.
By ROLLO
#12874
When I asked the question on the Bristol SN site it was said that Lam was expecting moves to be made from 1 July.
User avatar
By west brom warrior
#12879
Well its something to aim for I suppose but the farce is only just starting with contracted players moving mid season. With Saracens already relegated why not scrap the season and start next season in September as normal
patgadd, W4rriorz1980 liked this
User avatar
By Abmatt
#12880
west brom warrior wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:02 pm
Well its something to aim for I suppose but the farce is only just starting with contracted players moving mid season. With Saracens already relegated why not scrap the season and start next season in September as normal
Why not indeed.
By TVM
#12882
Doing it by dates rather than seasons would be infinitely simpler for those invovled (as opposed to merely watching).

People can't base moving families around etc based on an amorphous 'season' date
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12884
Abmatt wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:06 pm
west brom warrior wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:02 pm
Well its something to aim for I suppose but the farce is only just starting with contracted players moving mid season. With Saracens already relegated why not scrap the season and start next season in September as normal
Why not indeed.
Agreed.
By A38
#12888
The background of an article in the Times today, about Reinach leaving Saints, is the understanding that if the 2019/2020 season is resumed, it will be with the 2020/2021 squads and coaches in place. I think that this is what AS has also suggested.

I can't help thinking - gut feeling really - that that is wrong but it is no different, I suppose, in principle from soccer having transfer "windows" once their seasons have started.

Oh well, we wait and see. Or rather not see if games are played behind closed doors!
By ROLLO
#12889
BBC reports at the end of the Fatilofa piece that our new recriuts will be available if and when the season resumes in August.
User avatar
By Latecomer
#12890
Interesting to see that Billy Searle has been on Twitter (yesterday I think) saying his goodbye's to his Wasps followers, saying all good things must come to an end, thanks for the memories etc etc. Sort of comfirms it for me that players are moving on to their respective pastures new at the end of June.
By C.M.O.T. Dibbler
#12897
Does anyone else think that this is all part of a master plan to move to a worldwide rugby season starting in 2021?
The aim being to finish the outstanding premiership fixtures in August - October and then complete the 6 Nations tournament and Autumn Internationals in November / December before starting the new season in 2021.
Obviously this could not include the Saracens fixtures which should all be made void - both those already played and those yet to be played.
This would be an ideal time to make this change with minimum disruption to the normal calendars.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12907
latest I heard had the Six Nations going later into March and being played in one block, rather than split as now.

Seems Billy is well aware of where the majority votes on World Rugby matters lie!
Latecomer liked this
User avatar
By Abmatt
#12969
Well Chris robshaw has signed an extension at quins to cover the rest of the season. His contract was due to expire on 1 July.

That says to me that the season should resume with the new players and coaching staff in place.
By TVM
#12970
Looking at all of the evidence, I would say it is now safe to assume that contracts etc are running to fixed calender dates (seemingly 1st July) and not to the amorphous, open ended, concept of 'the season'.
By TVM
#12971
C.M.O.T. Dibbler wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:36 pm

Obviously this could not include the Saracens fixtures which should all be made void - both those already played and those yet to be played.
O/T - I think this is unfair to those who have managed to beat them in this time (3 had I believe, Saints, Quins and Chiefs)


That would slash Exeters lead to 1 point, and actually drop Saints from a semi final spot into 5th.

That isn't justice. They earned those points and that position, that solution simply harms Saints for doing nothing wrong.
Abmatt liked this
By A38
#12973
TVM wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:31 am
Looking at all of the evidence, I would say it is now safe to assume that contracts etc are running to fixed calender dates (seemingly 1st July) and not to the amorphous, open ended, concept of 'the season'.
Yes, I agree.

Players are returning for training next Monday; at Sixways they are using this:-
https://warriors.co.uk/2020/06/10/warri ... screening/

I wonder if we can conjecture that, officially or unofficially, transferring players / coaches may actually begin training at their new clubs rather than spend the last fortnight of their contracts at their old clubs.
User avatar
By Abmatt
#12974
I wouldn’t think so. Legally that is a bit of a mess.

If they are moving I think they will either train separately at old clubs or be on leave until new contract starts.
By TVM
#12975
All things are achievable by agreement - and as it is a universal thing, not just one player seeking special exemption.

It would seem a decent and fair arrangement, and only take everyone to agree to turn a blind eye for 2 weeks.

Simply choosing not to enforce a contract does not negate other contracts in the future, so I cannot see why it would have a lasting impact.

But I am not a lawyer - and that may be very obvious by my answer :)
By g2forumsm
#12977
TVM wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:53 am
All things are achievable by agreement - and as it is a universal thing, not just one player seeking special exemption.

It would seem a decent and fair arrangement, and only take everyone to agree to turn a blind eye for 2 weeks.

Simply choosing not to enforce a contract does not negate other contracts in the future, so I cannot see why it would have a lasting impact.

But I am not a lawyer - and that may be very obvious by my answer :)
And if somebody breaks a leg while training at their "new" club, who would be liable!
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12980
g2forumsm wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:53 am
TVM wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:53 am
All things are achievable by agreement - and as it is a universal thing, not just one player seeking special exemption.

It would seem a decent and fair arrangement, and only take everyone to agree to turn a blind eye for 2 weeks.

Simply choosing not to enforce a contract does not negate other contracts in the future, so I cannot see why it would have a lasting impact.

But I am not a lawyer - and that may be very obvious by my answer :)
And if somebody breaks a leg while training at their "new" club, who would be liable!
Gary, exactly what I was going to say, but you said it first so I needn’t bother.
By TVM
#12982
g2forumsm wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:53 am
TVM wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:53 am
All things are achievable by agreement - and as it is a universal thing, not just one player seeking special exemption.

It would seem a decent and fair arrangement, and only take everyone to agree to turn a blind eye for 2 weeks.

Simply choosing not to enforce a contract does not negate other contracts in the future, so I cannot see why it would have a lasting impact.

But I am not a lawyer - and that may be very obvious by my answer :)
And if somebody breaks a leg while training at their "new" club, who would be liable!
A very fair point
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#12985
If the new club has agreed that the player may begin training with them, then they are very obviously "liable".
By g2forumsm
#12989
poyntonshark wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:55 am
If the new club has agreed that the player may begin training with them, then they are very obviously "liable".
I would have thought it would need to be legally agreed between the parties
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12992
g2forumsm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:17 am
poyntonshark wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:55 am
If the new club has agreed that the player may begin training with them, then they are very obviously "liable".
I would have thought it would need to be legally agreed between the parties
I agree. In the case of legal agreements it would be clear. Informal agreements have a nasty habit of becoming informal disagreements the moment anything goes wrong.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#13001
TeflonTed wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:48 am
g2forumsm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:17 am
poyntonshark wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:55 am
If the new club has agreed that the player may begin training with them, then they are very obviously "liable".
I would have thought it would need to be legally agreed between the parties
I agree. In the case of legal agreements it would be clear. Informal agreements have a nasty habit of becoming informal disagreements the moment anything goes wrong.
Formal agreements have at least an equal propensity for becoming formal disagreements, hence "Contracts not worth the paper they are written on".

All contract clauses and application must be 'reasonable'. A Club allowing a player they are transferring in to begin training a week or two before his official contracted start date would reasonably be described as the club employing him. (unless of course there is a formal agreement to the contrary). All that said, of course, formal agreements between all parties would be the most agreeable situation.

Edited to add. Just reading further information on the sorry case of Janse Van Rensberg, Sale, Gloucester and The Lions. This little tidbit of information popped up -

"In any event, the Panel pointed to RFU Regulation 1 which, for the purposes of its Regulations, defined “contract” as:

any agreement, arrangements or understanding whether formal or informal and technically whether legally enforceable or not"


It's not specifically related to his matter, but this sad case does bring up many issues regarding contracts, it's not light reading but you may be interested - Tapping Up in Rugby
By TVM
#13165
Presumably for anyone who would be out of contract and clubless come July?
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#13178
Abmatt wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:50 pm
I’d just like to know how and when the season is going to restart.
Yes, and what’s to be done with ST holders not allowed in stadium. Live streaming deal with PRL?
User avatar
By Abmatt
#13182
TeflonTed wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 pm
Abmatt wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:50 pm
I’d just like to know how and when the season is going to restart.
Yes, and what’s to be done with ST holders not allowed in stadium. Live streaming deal with PRL?
Don’t hold your breath. Your ‘contract’ to watch rugby is between you and the club. Any streaming deal would have to be set up by the club as fulfilment of your ticket deal I would say. They have already set out the options for the remaining matches to be played this season should they be cancelled or behind closed doors.
Personally I still think they’re (PRL/RFU) waiting to see how training/ prem football goes before making a decision. Imho there is still a strong possibility that the remaining games will be canned and we will start at a later date with next season.

PRL sell the rights for U.K. viewing to BT. They are not theirs to give away.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#13187
Abmatt wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:33 pm
TeflonTed wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 pm
Abmatt wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:50 pm
I’d just like to know how and when the season is going to restart.
Yes, and what’s to be done with ST holders not allowed in stadium. Live streaming deal with PRL?
Don’t hold your breath. Your ‘contract’ to watch rugby is between you and the club. Any streaming deal would have to be set up by the club as fulfilment of your ticket deal I would say. They have already set out the options for the remaining matches to be played this season should they be cancelled or behind closed doors.
Personally I still think they’re (PRL/RFU) waiting to see how training/ prem football goes before making a decision. Imho there is still a strong possibility that the remaining games will be canned and we will start at a later date with next season.

PRL sell the rights for U.K. viewing to BT. They are not theirs to give away.
Not quite. Broadcast games are covered by another set of contractors, with far more cameras and the high cam behind the posts. That’s the BT stuff surely?

But all premiership games are recorded and available to stream free on PRL website, usually within 24 hours of the final whistle, sometime quicker. Just not live.

Something could be done!
User avatar
By Abmatt
#13191
True. I’d forgotten about the streaming. I’m sure something could be done, but I still think BT would have to be involved as they have the rights to live broadcast.

What they could do is lower their subscription and utilise their channels to show all games live! (Did a pig just fly past my window!)
W4rriorz1980 liked this
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#13193
Abmatt wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:00 pm
True. I’d forgotten about the streaming. I’m sure something could be done, but I still think BT would have to be involved as they have the rights to live broadcast.

What they could do is lower their subscription and utilise their channels to show all games live! (Did a pig just fly past my window!)
Couldn’t reply earlier, was too busy on a zoom meeting with your respected pater, Goldfinch, Patgadd, A38 and our best-informed lurker, who prefers to remain anonymous, so let’s call him Dave.

Re. BTS subscriptions, didn’t we just have x2 months(April May) either free or donated to NHS at users’ choice, and June @50% or did I dream it?
By A38
#13212
A letter in The Times today suggests that Swing Low might be replaced by We'll Meet Again

I suppose it's a case of: Don't know ...when"?
Abmatt, W4rriorz1980 liked this
User avatar
By patgadd
#13216
I am both amazed and amused by the number of "definitive" answers given on the net - even Brian Moore gets it wrong. I have it on the best authority that the Douai school version is the correct one, and of course that it has everything to do with the accompanying gestures and nothing to do with slavery other that that it was supposedly a slave who first wrote it.
By FlipFlop
#13220
Anyone know if any of our overseas stars are overseas at present due to local or UK travel restrictions or were none able to go back home before lockdown?
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#13786
Simba wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:24 pm
I don’t care who wrote or what it is about.
I will continue to sing it - on my own if need be.
Society has gone mad.
Feel free.

But it’s a horrible dirge, I won’t miss it if it goes, but I suspect it won’t!
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