Just watched (most) of the game aganst Saracens women which we lost 34 - 25.
Not really watched womens rugby before but was mildly impressed
Worcester played some good stuff and deserved a losing bonus point as well as the try bonus ( I assume the awarding of points is the same as for the Prem).
Don't know what level the officials are but the man in the centre certainly wasn't too bothered about offside, which Sarries took full advantage of !!
Kicking (place and from hand) let us down a bit, don't think we succeeded with one kick (although we did hit the bar with one penalty)
If Sarries are as strong as they reportedly were last season the I think Warriors Women could be in for a good season.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm
by Latecomer
Decided to change the title of this topic for obvious reasons.
The original post has attracted a pretty poor 101 views, with zero replies/comments.
Is this a sign of our indifference towards our Womens team ?
Would be genuinely interested in knowing what others think with regards to Warriors Women.
Seems they may have assembled a half decent team this season, with an impressive 58 - 5 away win today against DMP Sharks.
This follows the try bonus loss in the first game last week against last seasons champions (Saracens), with their performance deserving of a losing bonus too.
Unfortunately today's planned match stream was cancelled for some reason but the girls are worth a watch when you get the chance !!
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:57 pm
by TeflonTed
I respect your persistence and request for feedback.
We were talking about the issue of women’s rugby on our weekly zoom chat a couple of weeks ago. 5 long term ST holders, all of whom have played and watched rugby for many decades (and one of whom propped against The Pontypool Front Row...The genuine Viet-Gwent, and has the match day programme to prove it) and we all agreed that, try as we might, we couldn’t get interested in supporting the ladies’ game.
Can’t explain why, it’s hard to define why one is uninterested in something, but there it is I’m afraid.
I respect your persistence and request for feedback.
We were talking about the issue of women’s rugby on our weekly zoom chat a couple of weeks ago. 5 long term ST holders, all of whom have played and watched rugby for many decades (and one of whom propped against The Pontypool Front Row...The genuine Viet-Gwent, and has the match day programme to prove it) and we all agreed that, try as we might, we couldn’t get interested in supporting the ladies’ game.
Can’t explain why, it’s hard to define why one is uninterested in something, but there it is I’m afraid.
I have watched a bit of the sale women play these past 2 weeks but wouldn't know much about the players themselves so harder to get behind. I say this as someone who was watched a good bit of Irelands women's 15s and 7s these past few years so I've no issue with women's rugby in and of itself.
It would, I imagine, be as alienating as watching Coventry playing Ealing trailfinders in the championship for some.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:21 pm
by patgadd
I appreciate that the game changes, as all games do, over the years, but I was put off after watching England vs France(IIRC) at Sixways a few years ago. For a game played at International level it was not at all impressive - a bit like watching the under 10s. I have, however, been impressed by women's sevens, and would like to see it included in the Olympics; fast, furious and enjoyable to watch.
I appreciate that the game changes, as all games do, over the years, but I was put off after watching England vs France(IIRC) at Sixways a few years ago. For a game played at International level it was not at all impressive - a bit like watching the under 10s. I have, however, been impressed by women's sevens, and would like to see it included in the Olympics; fast, furious and enjoyable to watch.
It already is.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:41 pm
by Latecomer
Well at least the change of topic name and the more blatant question generated some responces, and I am not at all surprised by the obvious lack of enthusiasm.
Have to confess to not having much interest in the women's game previously but after watching the game against Sarries I will give it another chance.
It does seem that the club have a battle on their hands to generate crowds/interest for the women's games.
Not sure if we have many female contributors on this forum, if we do it would be interesting to hear your opinions.
Well at least the change of topic name and the more blatant question generated some responces, and I am not at all surprised by the obvious lack of enthusiasm.
Have to confess to not having much interest in the women's game previously but after watching the game against Sarries I will give it another chance.
It does seem that the club have a battle on their hands to generate crowds/interest for the women's games.
Not sure if we have many female contributors on this forum, if we do it would be interesting to hear your opinions.
Not sure about contributors, but we certainly have a moderator!
I appreciate that the game changes, as all games do, over the years, but I was put off after watching England vs France(IIRC) at Sixways a few years ago. For a game played at International level it was not at all impressive - a bit like watching the under 10s. I have, however, been impressed by women's sevens, and would like to see it included in the Olympics; fast, furious and enjoyable to watch.
It already is.
Doh! I blame this head cold - sorry, I mean really horrible case of Covid 19.
Thanks Ted.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:45 pm
by Underdog
Personally my reasons for not being very engaged with women's rugby are the same as why I'm not really that bothered for men's rugby league. When I watch both I can appreciate the skill and enjoy it, but I already spend a good portion of my weekends watching sport. There's only so much room in my sporting diet and that's mostly taken up with rugby, cricket and football (in that order).
I appreciate that the game changes, as all games do, over the years, but I was put off after watching England vs France(IIRC) at Sixways a few years ago. For a game played at International level it was not at all impressive - a bit like watching the under 10s. I have, however, been impressed by women's sevens, and would like to see it included in the Olympics; fast, furious and enjoyable to watch.
It already is.
Doh! I blame this head cold - sorry, I mean really horrible case of Covid 19.
Thanks Ted.
All currently fit and well at Ted Towers. I’d keep out of Kiddie town centre if I were you.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:49 pm
by A38
I know I'm going slightly off track (not unusual for this board I know!) but I see Warriors Women as part of the overall Sixways "project" and as such I would be very happy if they succeeded in having a good season.
I know I'm going slightly off track (not unusual for this board I know!) but I see Warriors Women as part of the overall Sixways "project" and as such I would be very happy if they succeeded in having a good season.
Sixways needs all the kudos it can get.
Hear hear A38, it seems a good proportion of the Prem clubs have a Womens team, I think for Warriors Women to do well amongst the likes of Saracens, Exeter, Quins and Sale would be great for the Warriors 'brand'
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 pm
by patgadd
Latecomer, I'm glad your second post has led to a lively discussion of women's rugby, but the true test will come when the crowds are welcomed back. We can all sit at our laptops virtue signalling and making the right noises (no, I'm not suggesting that anyone here is doing that), but there is only one question to be answered: "Will you pay to see women's rugby?". That does not incorporate "Will you come a bit earlier/stay a bit later to see a women's game if it's included in your match ticket for the men's game?"
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:29 am
by FlipFlop
I think if the club help make the 'presence' of the Women's Prem Comp more obvious on the Warriors site this would help, as would detailing some of the Internationals in the current Valkyries squad.
The Womens side have for considerable time before Warriors Elite recognition materialised, been supplying players to international level squads at 15's and 7's, yet continued to be overlooked at the expense of the Mens team who were bumbling along between lower reaches of Prem and Championship yet folk were happy to attend and see that and pay accordingly.
Not sure why paying to watch Women's Elite is much different, but price points will no doubt be a determinant used by many as a reason to not attend and not the perceived or actual quality of the rugby on offer.
Would attendance be any more or less than for an Academy game for instance if the women's games were played stand alone to the men's? Personally cannot see a reason as to why they should be lesser games, whether perceived or otherwise. At the top level, women's rugby has arguably performed better on a world stage than the men's game.
Is the issue, an engrained one for standard folk who watch rugby that they would watch male rugby from Embryo to Grave level, yet 15 women playing just leads to being " a step too far" for that following a rugby glass ceiling if you like?
Hoping that there will be a pick up in interest and the hard work and input from the players and coaching staff begin to be a respected supplement or alternative to the current preferences of the majority of rugby followers in future at Prem, 6N and World stages
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:03 pm
by BehindThePosts
For me, there's a long established and ingrained following of men's sport. Not just in the UK, but globally. Women's sport has historically taken a back seat and had far fewer followers and virtually no TV coverage - at least in the UK.
In fact I can only think of one exception to this and that’s football in the US where the women's game regularly attracts huge crowds.
We're starting to see more TV coverage of women's sport here now with the women's football league and I saw a womens basketball match on Sky the other day. Much more of this and on terrestrial TV might help generate interest which in time will generate paying crowds. Until then IMHO, it will remain a bolt on to the men's match day programme.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:07 pm
by TeflonTed
Some good points made. I’ve been trying to work out why I initially felt uninterested, and have come to the conclusion that it’s probably due to lack of easy exposure.
If I want to watch premiership, championship or lower level men’s rugby I know very well how to access games. (Pay money/ look for free TV/walk along to the Glen Mitchell Memorial Ground .....etc etc.
Would I pay to see WW games.....probably not, would I turn up to 6Ways for a premiership game 2 hours early or stay on afterwards to watch the ladies, might well.
Interesting thread.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:11 pm
by Latecomer
Apparently our game against Wasps Ladies this coming Saturday is being live streamed.
Game kicks off at 2pm so give it a watch fella's
For some reason Wasps call their womens team "Ladies", can't help but think that sounds a bit dated, not sure if it could be construed politically incorrect though
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:22 pm
by Latecomer
Here you are fella's, a link to the highlights of the game against DMP Sharks to give you a 5 minute taster !
Apparently our game against Wasps Ladies this coming Saturday is being live streamed.
Game kicks off at 2pm so give it a watch fella's
For some reason Wasps call their womens team "Ladies", can't help but think that sounds a bit dated, not sure if it could be construed politically incorrect though
Ah but do they all identify as female? Or do some prefer to be called “they” (which is a plural, but never mind).
Watched.....a bit like 7’s generally, and that’s no bad thing. Distinct lack of tackling amongst the Sale players, and good to see we’ve got some prop shaped props.
Had to turn the sound off....if I want irritating 2 chord repetitive guitar riffs I can find elsewhere.
Watched.....a bit like 7’s generally, and that’s no bad thing. Distinct lack of tackling amongst the Sale players, and good to see we’ve got some prop shaped props.
Had to turn the sound off....if I want irritating 2 chord repetitive guitar riffs I can find elsewhere.
Watched.....a bit like 7’s generally, and that’s no bad thing. Distinct lack of tackling amongst the Sale players, and good to see we’ve got some prop shaped props.
Had to turn the sound off....if I want irritating 2 chord repetitive guitar riffs I can find elsewhere.
Thanks for putting it up, you’re selling hard!!
I thought DMP are based in Darlington?
They are. Seems the name they go by is DMP Durham Sharks, quite a mouthful if you don't abbreviate the first bit
Didn't set out to give it the hard sell Ted. Just think as part of Warriors they deserve a bit of a following.
I'm sure they are growing on you already
Watched.....a bit like 7’s generally, and that’s no bad thing. Distinct lack of tackling amongst the Sale players, and good to see we’ve got some prop shaped props.
Had to turn the sound off....if I want irritating 2 chord repetitive guitar riffs I can find elsewhere.
Thanks for putting it up, you’re selling hard!!
I thought DMP are based in Darlington?
They are. Seems the name they go by is DMP Durham Sharks, quite a mouthful if you don't abbreviate the first bit
Didn't set out to give it the hard sell Ted. Just think as part of Warriors they deserve a bit of a following.
I'm sure they are growing on you already
Shows how much I knew about female rugby doesn’t it!
Don’t worry about the selling Latecomer. I’m a good test case for anyone selling anything. The water-seller in the desert was always beaten down on price.
To borrow an acronym from my colleagues on the advertising desk, you’ve just got me from A to I on the AIDA scale........teetering on the brink of D.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:38 am
by west brom warrior
I wish the Warriors women well and it is always nice to read on the website that they are doing well however in general I have struggled to get that into womens rugby as I find it slow and a number of the games are a mismatch. Just watching the highlights of Warriors latest win the opposition barely laid a finger on our team when trying to tackle, it reminded me a bit of when we used to have some random team from Europe turn up to Worcester and we would run in tries easier than playing against the amauter team .
What I would say is womens sport in general is in its infancy as its not been taken seriously by national boards or clubs until the last few years and they are improving every year. I am sure it will not be long until more teams are of a higher standard and the matches closer, that will bring in the crowds, excitement and improved coverage of the womens game.
Apparently our game against Wasps Ladies this coming Saturday is being live streamed.
Game kicks off at 2pm so give it a watch fella's
For some reason Wasps call their womens team "Ladies", can't help but think that sounds a bit dated, not sure if it could be construed politically incorrect though
Wasps ladies started 1984 so I guess they were all ladies then. Harlequins only became women last year ( well ,bit of a debate to be had there).
Wasps ladies have played at the Ricoh but as they are more connected to the amateur side they are based at twyford Avenue.
I was impressed with the game I saw . Neither side held back in the tackles and the scrums were more honest.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:39 am
by SimonG
To be honest I think any term used to show gender nowadays will upset someone. Personally I don't care what they call the teams as long as I am able to tell whether people are talking about what I regard as a mens or womens team. (Apologies to anyone offended!).
I appreciate that the game changes, as all games do, over the years, but I was put off after watching England vs France(IIRC) at Sixways a few years ago. For a game played at International level it was not at all impressive - a bit like watching the under 10s.
As the proud but often frustrated coach of an U8s side - international women's sides play at a considerably higher level
Whilst at all times respecting Pat's opinion - and agreeing that because of the sheer physical bulk of male players these days the visual impact is lesser, that is the sort of hyperbole that doesn't really help.
Also - Simon, contrary to the Daily Express' view on the world, the vast majority of millenials arel fine with the nomenclature of mens/womens.
I appreciate that the game changes, as all games do, over the years, but I was put off after watching England vs France(IIRC) at Sixways a few years ago. For a game played at International level it was not at all impressive - a bit like watching the under 10s.
As the proud but often frustrated coach of an U8s side - international women's sides play at a considerably higher level
Whilst at all times respecting Pat's opinion - and agreeing that because of the sheer physical bulk of male players these days the visual impact is lesser, that is the sort of hyperbole that doesn't really help.
The sort of hyperbole that doesn't really help? I coached at under 8, 9 and 10 levels, and am at least as entitled as you are to voice my opinion, so I'll repeat it: - a bit like watching the under 10s.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:51 pm
by TVM
Well first and foremost I wasn't trying to deprive you of your opinion - simply disagreeing with it (in what I thought was a fairly light hearted manner), and adding my opinion that such views were not conducive to any sort of productive dialogue.
If you would like to me to be a bit more straightforward about it, I believe that equating international female rugby to Under 10 level rugby - which you did, seeing as you don't like me referring to it as hyperbole - is frankly very, very silly.
I certainly wouldn't want to equate Heather Fisher or Maggie Alphonsie to children....
I certainly wouldn't want to equate Heather Fisher or Maggie Alphonsie to children....
.... and neither would I, which is why I conceded that women's rugby had changed. The game I saw many years ago, however, was pat-ball, and my grandmother could have scored (oh sorry, there I go again with that dreadful hyperbole thing).
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:15 pm
by Latecomer
Well, when I started this thread I didn't anticipate it breaking out into 'handbags'
Play nice !
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:26 pm
by Bod
WWW has been very much restructured and recoached under a fantastic HC in Jo Yapp
She's recruited some great young talent
Stand back, and see what happens
I only wish her and her team the very best - there are some belting youngsters there I know who will absolutely shine.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:13 pm
by Southstand(again)
I believe World Rugby recently issued figures that indicated that women rugby players were numbering close to a third of all participants of the game of Rugby Union.
This being the case it falls on Rugby to respect and encourage this level of interest .
The above is fact. Now an opinion.
Girls are often far less active than boys in childhood..As such, they tend to grow up with different levels of motor skills and spacial awareness than their male counterparts.
There are obviously notable exceptions to this, but they are, on the whole, in a minority.
My experience of watching women's rugby has strengthened this "Opinion" and together with the diminished strength and impact of the ladies game, leaves me unconvinced that there is a viable professional product.
Sorry, not for me.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:40 am
by FlipFlop
“...leaves me unconvinced that there is a viable professional product.”
Whereas the Men’s game is wholly sustainable based on a Championship which is virtually deceased a Prem with maybe 2 profit making clubs and our own club on the brink of the next financial crisis seemingly on a perpetual basis, and that was before COVID.
I appreciate it is not for all, but arguably passing it over on commercial grounds is a lesser argument than some of the other observations you made on the women’s games you had seen.
I appreciate it is not for all, but arguably passing it over on commercial grounds is a lesser argument than some of the other observations ...
But commercial grounds are the only grounds that matter. Personally, I see no point at all in Formula 1 and regard boxing as brutish thuggery, but millions disagree on both points, and that's what makes the world go round (although the lure of folk singing still escapes me).
I appreciate it is not for all, but arguably passing it over on commercial grounds is a lesser argument than some of the other observations ...
But commercial grounds are the only grounds that matter. Personally, I see no point at all in Formula 1 and regard boxing as brutish thuggery, but millions disagree on both points, and that's what makes the world go round (although the lure of folk singing still escapes me).
Well folk signing is a very broad brush some very good and some very bad in my opinion.
I appreciate it is not for all, but arguably passing it over on commercial grounds is a lesser argument than some of the other observations ...
But commercial grounds are the only grounds that matter. Personally, I see no point at all in Formula 1 and regard boxing as brutish thuggery, but millions disagree on both points, and that's what makes the world go round (although the lure of folk singing still escapes me).
Well if it’s only commercial that matters, presumably we can all figure who we intend to watch in the future, as Warriors are not commercially sustainable. Probably should cancel Academy league too, as that can’t pay for itself. Wonder what commercials drew our owners to Morecambe FC or Raiders? A bit of Steeleye Span might help
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:34 pm
by Southstand(again)
I've always believed that it is inaccurate to believe that Rugby Union became a professional game in 1995. The truth, is we simply stopped pretending we were amateurs.
A quarter of a century on, the game is still trying to rid itself of the amateurs that continue to run it.
Having sat in Twickenham stadium post men's international, watching it rapidly empty prior to the commencement of a Women's game, I am convinced women's Rugby is not yet a viable product.
As for folk music, I've been attending a packed Cropredy festival on and off since 1976. I remember one year having a conversation with a bloke called bob Plant as to why we both kept turning up in a field every first week in August. the general consensus was "Why wouldn't we ?"
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:54 am
by FlipFlop
There are long held views of traditional, long established followers of the game who Will probably never want to view an alternative to their male game anymore than they would warmly welcome going to watch football ( as evidenced by the alternative naming concepts) and that is why many grounds are empty before and after the so called ‘main event’ of male rugby. Many women follow male rugby without issue or baggage. It will be disappointing if the women’s game cannot become as much a part of the rugby family as male and kids/youth levels are, but it will be more down to likely engrained opinion holding spectator engagement back than a lack of commercial draw in my opinion.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:38 am
by Southstand(again)
I regularly visited Molineux before Covid and have visited Claines Lane a few times this season.
I enjoy women's tennis, golf, athletics, cycling ... I even went to the last women's international at New road.
I may be a traditionalist in that I believe politics and the more recent arrival of identity politics have no place in sport.
Although we seem to be moving towards a time of "millennial hive think" that dictates what we "do say watch and think" I simply reserve the right to have an opinion and act on it.
Now stop preaching and let me watch the Six Nations.
Re: Warriors Women Indifference ?
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:53 am
by TeflonTed
I vaguely felt the same way SS.
For the record, I’ve played and watched rugby since childhood in Swansea. I competed in motor sport as a lad, and still have an interest.
Other than that I have absolutely no interest in any other sport.
I have watched a small amount of ladies rugby, and didn’t enjoy it.
