User avatar
By TeflonTed
#1688
Since the proposed system after expansion still allows for promotion and relegation via a playoff then it isn’t ringfencing and I can live with it.

The next steps must be some serious changes in finance to support championship sides far more effectively than at present.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#1711
abberley wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:51 pm
TeflonTed wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:47 pm
What! You’ve deleted the first ever LeRoux on this new forum,
Good to see LeRoux has moved to the new forum as well :clap:
Well, it had, since A38 duplicated a post, but Lindsay’s been practising her forum management skills.....we’ll have to wait a while.
By g2forumsm
#1720
Good to see that this forum replicates the old one with lots of drivel (sorry, informed content). Anyway back on top - Surely the biggest issue with this is that the club which ends up in the premiership won't know until it is to late to recruit - which was the biggest problem with the old championship system of play offs. If it was in play this season then LI/Newcastle/Us/Tigers/Bristol wouldn't have known until pretty late on n the season / after the end of the season which league they would be in. I would rather have ring fencing for a period of time
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#1723
g2forumsm wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 am
Good to see that this forum replicates the old one with lots of drivel (sorry, informed content). Anyway back on top - Surely the biggest issue with this is that the club which ends up in the premiership won't know until it is to late to recruit - which was the biggest problem with the old championship system of play offs. If it was in play this season then LI/Newcastle/Us/Tigers/Bristol wouldn't have known until pretty late on n the season / after the end of the season which league they would be in. I would rather have ring fencing for a period of time
Morning Gary....yep, the same old drivel from the same old crowd.

I detect you’re hedging your bets with duplicate posts on both forums, I admire your efforts, but I doubt many will be bothering to share that approach.

As to the content, I’ve been 100% against ringfencing on principle, but see that’s it’s probably inevitable at some point, and we’ll be all the worse off for it. With a son in Ireland who is deeply involved in the game, I understand the total lack of interest at the bottom half of the table starting just after Christmas... you know how crowds drop off at Wuss after a losing run, well they virtually cease over there.

The new proposed arrangement does have the recruitment issue you highlight, but it’s better than ringfencing IMHO.
By g2forumsm
#1727
Morning Ted - I won't be posting on both for too much longer (firm believer in only one place to store data, etc.)

I know what you are saying regarding drop off in attendances, but it is really hard decision as to which is better for the sake of the game. I just can not see the Championship ever having enough money thrown at it to make it competitive, this solution just seems like a sop to those who are against ring fencing. I really don't what the fairest solution would be, I guess we just look forward to seeing the Championship team, ship in an international XV who have been dual registered (Leeds, Hartbury this season)
User avatar
By Abmatt
#1731
As I stated on the other forum sometimes ago, I am not in favour of this.

Come play-off time the teams involved will be in the same situation as we were with the champ play-off. Neither will be able to recruit until their future isn’t certain. I’m with @g2forumsm on this one.

However with the current gulf between the premiership(I include falcons) and the championship, this is in essence ring fencing in disguise.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#1737
Partly agree with both Gary and Abmatt.

The proposal is a sop, the Championship is likely to remain underfunded, but the proposal is better than solid ringfencing. Just.

T’aint Right, T’aint Fair, T’aint Fit, T’aint Proper.
By A38
#1738
Given the financial circumstances of many of the Championship clubs I don't think that promotion to the vastly more expensive Premiership is ever going to be an option for them.

That leaves one, maybe two, maybe three Championship clubs (other than the 13th Premiership club) who have "ambition" for promotion. Such clubs can be accommodated within the Premiership by enlarging it to 14 (and beyond) when and if they are in a position to compete in the Premiership.

But that is in the future.

At the moment the 12 + 1 format of one club being sent to sit in the Championship for a season is effectively ringfencing. Once that is understood, however much we all yearn for promotion / relegation, we have to accept the reality.

Actually, I see what is likely to be agreed in September as a stepping stone to a more radical change in the league structure which will take in clubs from other countries. This will produce a small number of elite clubs which will have the financial resources to compete in that set up. I can't see clubs like Worcester having those resources - or even wanting to be part of the "Super League" - and, again, if that does come to pass, we would all have to accept that. We would have the choice of moving our allegiance to Coventry or Bristol or staying put supporting a second level club.

I for one would stay put. But I'm Worcester born and bred.
By ROLLO
#1741
I regret that the decision of how the game is progressed will be determined by one thing only TV, and it is folk like me who subscribe to both SKY and BT Sport that make it possible. A bit of a moral dilema.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#1747
The golden rule, the man with the gold makes the rules.

Rollo makes a fair point, it’s the TV money that drives the commerce, and it’s the subscribers who drive the TV funds.

As a BTS subscriber, I try to convince myself its a good deal, I pay whatever it is to see three or sometimes four premiership games per weekend, and I can record them for easy viewing and pauses to refresh drinks. So much better than streaming. And it is a good deal if you have the time to consume that much rugby.

I even bought a NowTV week pass last Sunday to watch England v Wales in the comfort of home, and since the reverse fixture is on Saturday I’ll have watched them both for less than £15. And a lot of F1 catch up stuff during the week.

So what’s my point? Moral dilemma, probably, can I live with that?, certainly.

The alternative being to walk to Droitwich Rugby club of a Saturday, chuck a fiver in the bucket, and watch some well intentioned enthusiastic amateurs huff and puff and play fairly rubbish rugby.

There, I feel better now, off to Waitrose for posh sausage rolls.
User avatar
By abberley
#1749
ROLLO wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:45 am
... and it is folk like me who subscribe to both SKY and BT Sport that make it possible. A bit of a moral dilema.
A dilemma that is likely to be made worse with the likes of Amazon, Netflix and others joining the scramble to replace traditional 'broadcasting'.

(There must surely be an opportunity in the new subscription model for a specialist 'Rugby Channel' [or any other sport] to re-package just the rugby from the various subscription streams?. )
User avatar
By abberley
#1757
TeflonTed wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:32 am

T’aint Right, T’aint Fair, T’aint Fit, T’aint Proper.

Caused a bit of a ripple in The Apostrophe Protection Society group.
No real consensus yet, but possibly should be:

't ain't Right, 't ain't Fair, 't ain't Fit, 't ain't Proper. ?
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#1759
abberley wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:02 pm
TeflonTed wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:32 am

T’aint Right, T’aint Fair, T’aint Fit, T’aint Proper.

Caused a bit of a ripple in The Apostrophe Protection Society group.
No real consensus yet, but possibly should be:

't ain't Right, 't ain't Fair, 't ain't Fit, 't ain't Proper. ?
Possibly, and certainly if one used the alternative “ ‘t’isn’t”, since the full “It is not” can be implied.

But since “T’aint” cannot be expressed as any correct full version, it’s possible all bets are off.

I’n’tit?
By FlipFlop
#1815
The 'Pray off' still has the same issue it had when it was a Champ only play off i.e. player retention and player recruitment for both teams.

Irish could and would not IMO, have recruited who and when they did, if they knew they had to play Falcons for a Prem berth.

Also the relative strength / physically and squad wise in such a game would still favour the Prem side, despite the relative psychological strengths of the 2 sides as a possible counter.

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