#58607
Let's assume that the rumours are true and that the new Wasps management will want to attract former Worcester supporters back to Sixways. To do this they will have to put a bit of Worcester flavour into their publicity. And another assumption, they have access to the season ticket data base.

So I haver mocked up this spoof of a letter which we may all receive in due course. It is rather tongue in cheek but you never know.

WASPS @ WORCESTER

Come and join us at Sixways for a season of entertaining rugby.

Wasps have a proud history being established as long ago as 1867. In more recent years we have been Premiership and Heineken Cup champions; the winning World Cup squad included the Wasps players Dallaglio, Lewsey, Worsley, Simon Shaw and Stuart Abbott who all made significant contributions.

Our ambition now is to build back to that level of success at Worcester and you have the exciting opportunity to join us on that journey as we assemble a brand new squad at our new home at Sixways. That squad, we are delighted to say, will include players who will be well known to Worcester Warriors supporters. Xxxx and Yyyy both products of the Worcester academy are amongst other former Warriors players who will join us in the Summer.

We have some good news for Worcester Warriors supporters who were season ticket holders since 2021. If you buy a Wasps season ticket for the 2023/24 season you will get a 10% discount automatically. Further details will follow in due course.

We do look forward to seeing you at Sixways.
#59764
Amongst the continuing silence from Begbies, DCMS, Jim, WWSC, Marcello, Old Uncle James Sandford and all, up pops well established and prolific Wasps poster “neils” on SN saying simply “Wasps going elsewhere”.

Wonder what he knows that we don’t? He’s not by any means a troll, has a history of serious comment on the Wasps sites.
#59767
The loss of Wasps' rental income would put a rather large dent in Atlas' income projections.

Even if the Stourbridge deal went ahead I can't see income from that source being particularly significant - at least in the first few seasons.

And with the scepticism about the likes of pop concerts already expressed one has to wonder about financial viability even with the medical testing testing floor mooted.

Not really an attractive prospect for the 27 potential investors mentioned by Atlas.
#59769
A38 wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:25 pm
The loss of Wasps' rental income would put a rather large dent in Atlas' income projections.

Even if the Stourbridge deal went ahead I can't see income from that source being particularly significant - at least in the first few seasons.

And with the scepticism about the likes of pop concerts already expressed one has to wonder about financial viability even with the medical testing testing floor mooted.

Not really an attractive prospect for the 27 potential investors mentioned by Atlas.
Until and unless Jim can prove otherwise, I’m taking the 27 as a large dollop of bullshit. Along with the very briefly published list of local luminaries he was going to involve as “local directors” or whatever words were used. That list, which I so regret I didn’t screenshot or otherwise save, included an intriguing Arabic name.

Now we’ll never know, like so many previous promises claims and assertions they are consigned to history.
#59774
TeflonTed wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:18 pm
A38 wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:25 pm
The loss of Wasps' rental income would put a rather large dent in Atlas' income projections.

Even if the Stourbridge deal went ahead I can't see income from that source being particularly significant - at least in the first few seasons.

And with the scepticism about the likes of pop concerts already expressed one has to wonder about financial viability even with the medical testing testing floor mooted.

Not really an attractive prospect for the 27 potential investors mentioned by Atlas.
Until and unless Jim can prove otherwise, I’m taking the 27 as a large dollop of bullshit. Along with the very briefly published list of local luminaries he was going to involve as “local directors” or whatever words were used. That list, which I so regret I didn’t screenshot or otherwise save, included an intriguing Arabic name.

Now we’ll never know, like so many previous promises claims and assertions they are consigned to history.
The rugbyworcs account tweeted the following during that meeting;

#59804
A38 wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:01 pm
Wasps have a proud history being established as long ago as 1867. In more recent years we have been Premiership and Heineken Cup champions; the winning World Cup squad included the Wasps players Dallaglio, Lewsey, Worsley, Simon Shaw and Stuart Abbott who all made significant contributions.
They might do well to leave Dallaglio and Lewsey out of their marketing emails. Both have seriously got Worcester supporters backs up in the past so mention of their names may well have the opposite effect to what they are looking for !
Actually the thought of Dallaglio strutting his punditry about HIS team around Sixways is making me feel quite ill.
#60315
Just read the full text of The Guardian piece on the leaked document re. Wasps plan for a new stadium on the “M40 Corridor”.

Brand new stadium, hotel and commercial complex, Premiership status, income of greater than 50% from commercial activities.

Sound familiar? Has O’Toole been moonlighting as a copy writer for Wasps?

Utter fantasy, but readable via the Wasps link on this site, and incidentally, does not say, as has been claimed elsewhere , that Henley training ground has been approved by RFU for Championship games, what it actually says re. Henley is
“ As things stand, it is understood the club’s existing training ground in Henley-in-Arden, Warwickshire could satisfy the criteria to stage competitive league matches.”
#60325
TeflonTed wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:50 am
....
what it actually says re. Henley is
“ As things stand, it is understood the club’s existing training ground in Henley-in-Arden, Warwickshire could satisfy the criteria to stage competitive league matches.”
No problem is that is at the lowest (Midland Counties 4) level.
#61024
ie RFU prepare to say “the locals wanted it, so we’ve said OK”

Well, this local doesn’t want it, and won’t be going anywhere near a Wasps game. Not that I wish them any ill, but I’m simply not a Wasps supporter.

And, if Atlas do shortly organise a further supporters event to explain the “grand plan” I won’t be going. I’ve heard enough of grand plans, I'll just wait and see what happens.

And, just for clarity, if I were to decide I wanted to watch Stourbridge 1st XV, then I’d go to, err….Stourbridge.
#61239
We are back to rugby creditors - or at least what constitutes a rugby creditor.

It may well be that this issue alone will prevent our seeing elite rugby at Sixways. For both Wasps and Worcester the actual total amount due has not been quantified, it seems, with the RFU struggling to interpret its own rules with the result being that settling the eventual figures will be unaffordable / commercially unwise for anybody.
#61497
Latecomer wrote:
Thu May 18, 2023 8:25 pm
Don't worry lads, I'm sure the 'Jim and James' combo will be making a statement tomorrow as to the implications of this news.
Keeping us all well informed as promised :liar:
I’d be very much surprised if Sandford is still actively involved. His angle was always to develop his existing (well, just about existing anyway) business looking after elite athletes medical CV’s and building a connection with the much vaunted US medical testing mob. Who we now seem to agree amount to 100% of not a lot.

The Wasps news is terminal for Atlas, I can’t see anyway forward other than Holland and O’Toole wringing their hands and bemoaning the mess the RFU have got them into.

Has anyone read the Wasps statement which came later this afternoon? Basically blaming everything on RFU/PRL,.

WASPS STATEMENT

Our exit from the Rugby Football Union

It has been an all-consuming 7 months since the 17th of October 2022. Our first task was to save and secure the brand, the IP, and the legend ? and in that we have been successful. Since then, we have been constantly involved in the resurrection of the club with the intention of competing in the 2023 RFU Championship.

Operating in a void between regulatory authorities that were managed by strict governance requirements, and a championship that had not been engaged in our membership and who, perhaps understandably, offered some resentment to our inclusion, has been challenging.

Our recovery to date has been managed by a very small team who have been dealing with the operational and financial issues and requirements of the RFU and PRL since our engagement in November 2022 when we were successful in the approval process to enter the RFU Championship in September 2023. That approval was subject to initial and then continuing requirements around financing, ground, rugby creditors and the demanding governance provisions. During our approval process, and since, we have continually reminded the RFU that we would not repeat the mistakes of the past by allowing a single point of failure, and that we would not commit to any employment or contract unless we were sure that
we would be able to fund the expenditure for the season.

We have embarked on a wide ranging, and professional search, for suitable funding. From the outset we had interest from various sources who engaged in their own due
diligence, some in depth to the extent that they had direct contact with the governing bodies. Whilst the investment interest continues, we regret to say that the current state of rugby finances, the lack of clarity on the league structure and concerns over promotion has caused the investor group to remain silent and fatigued.

On two occasions we asked the RFU for an extension of time to secure funding and to satisfy the rugby creditors. Our requests were refused on both occasions. Whilst we understand the need for regulatory conformity and the administration of the league, the only reason we needed that extension was for the RFU to establish a clear vision and direction of travel so that our investor pool were able to see equitable funding for the Championship and a clear pathway to promotion.

Indeed, the recent revelations around the possible ring fencing of the premiership for 3 to 5 years to protect it has further weakened our investment position. There is the suggestion that a route for promotion could exist with a play-off between the bottom of the premiership playing the winner of the Championship. Given there is a deficit of ?4m+ in funding between the Premiership and the Championship, then the only route of promotion includes the very problem of excessive funding that perpetuates the business system failure.

We had made progress in certain areas though. We have a kit deal, significant sponsorship from a global brand, and a choice of grounds to play at. We have 232 players and 37 coaches available to select a team from. We have also identified strong local authority support for our own stadium, and whilst some have criticised us for even considering a new stadium option, their rush to judgement ignores the stark reality that rugby at the higher levels needs supplementary income to survive without owner funding - which is the single point of failure we are determined to avoid. Rugby alone will not provide a sustainable business, until it is properly governed and financially supported.

The arrangements and direction regarding the rugby creditors has also been troublesome. We were handed the responsibility of others to identify, validate, audit, and settle the rugby creditor claims inherited from the previous administration. We established a system to manage this process and acknowledged our moral obligations to complete it.

Following our regrettable exit from the Championship, our understanding is that the rugby creditors will now revert back to the administrators for the claims to be pursued against Wasps Holdings Limited (In Administration). We will work with the administrators on this.

So, what will happen now?

The journey continues with utter determination and commitment to ensure that WASPS continues its 156-year history in a sustainable rugby environment that shares the vision
and values that the new club aspires to. We are extremely grateful for the loyal support and concern from our global fan base.

Our silence has been deliberate and necessary. Firstly, we had nothing definitive to say that couldn?t have changed the following day, and often did, and secondly, we only recovered our social media accounts and rebuilt a new web site in the first week of May. You will hear more from us soon.
#61519
The latest BBC website article:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65642901

Dawson puts his finger, probably accidentally, on a number of pertinent issues:-

"Therefore it's probably not a very appealing proposition for any kind of investment.

"There should be better broadcast deals out there. It should be more commercial and underpinning.

"There is a desperate need for the RFU and all the clubs to come together to collaborate as English rugby as a whole because until that happens it's not going to get resolved."


Wasps and most likely LI's potential investors have been put off by the uncertainty surrounding, inter alia , ring fencing but one has to query what return any investor (as against a "sugar daddy") would hope to get from rugby as it is.

Rugby has to come to terms with the fact that it is not a major sport in England. I don't know what total attendance was like on an average weekend but let's say that if there were 5 games there might be 50,000 paying customers in total across the country. Quite frankly that's chickenfeed compared to soccer and that's where the TV money goes. CVC, to deal with another of Dawson's points, were as I understand it brought in to increase TV revenue. Have they succeeded?

But Dawson is quite right when he says that a root and branch review is required as otherwise the game, certainly the professional game, will wither slowly away.

The article does refer to Worcester at the end. The comment about the Administrators not expecting "any impact" I find difficult to interpret.

In any case, their work must surely be nearly done. With all assets sold, all that remains will be the mopping up, the liquidation of the company, the distribution of what surplus there is to the Revenue and the final reports.
#62757
Thought I'd pay a visit to the current Wasps Rugby official (?) website to see if there was any sort of update on there as to their situation.
Although dated 18th May I found some interesting and informative words in this club statement.

https://www.wasps.co.uk/club-announcement/

If nothing else it provides an object lesson to O'Fool and his apprentice in how to update and inform a club's supporter base.
Interesting to read of several ground choices, including a new build option, which could have legs as it seems they will re-occupy the training ground at Henley in Arden (which I believe Birmingham City FC are currently hiring on a temporary basis).
They claim to have a kit deal, sponsorship deal with a global brand and oodles of players and coaches to choose from.
Some well chosen and crafted words about the RFU's unrealistic stipulations over 'rugby creditors'.
OK, some of this may be out of date, but still far better than our two Irish clowns have treated us.
#63480
Anyone in any doubt any more?

Confirmed by Companies House listing.
Atlas Worcester Warriors Ltd. Notification dated today:-

Notification of Loxwood Holdings Limited as a person with significant control on 16 June 2023

“ The relevant legal entity holds, directly or indirectly, 75% or more of the shares in the company.”

Interesting that all this happened on 16th June. Jim and James ceased to have significant control as at that date.

It was heavily rumoured!
#63492
It may be good news if elite rugby is to return to Sixways but we do not yet know what form that will take.

It rather looks to me, on the scant evidence available, that if an elite men's rugby team plays next season at Sixways it will be badged as Wasps. The question then arises as to which league and at what level Wasps Mark 2 would play at.

There are many chapters of this story still to be written.
#63497
SimonG wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:15 am
I've been saying for months that the latest reincarnation of Wasps will be playing at Sixways next season. Unfortunately it seems even more likely now.
Not sure if it was officially announced but I think we've known it for a while haven't we ?
Hopefully it's still a short to medium term thing whilst they sort their own ground out !
If Holland's words are truthful he wants to preserve Warriors IP and sounds like he is open to bids for it. Time will tell I suppose ................
#63499
It doesn't seem to me that Wasps want to make Worcester a long term home, even if they do end up reviving themselves at Sixways for a season or two. So long as he is being honest about the commitment to also keep Worcester Warriors alive, then the situation seems a good deal better than with the previous two clowns or the previous, previous two clowns.
#63512
Latecomer wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:30 pm
SimonG wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:15 am
I've been saying for months that the latest reincarnation of Wasps will be playing at Sixways next season. Unfortunately it seems even more likely now.
Not sure if it was officially announced but I think we've known it for a while haven't we ?
Hopefully it's still a short to medium term thing whilst they sort their own ground out !
If Holland's words are truthful he wants to preserve Warriors IP and sounds like he is open to bids for it. Time will tell I suppose ................
Well bearing in mind Wasps (other than the standalone amateur club) don't even exist at the moment let alone have a place in any league I really don't think anything of the sort has been announced or is definitely known.

My long held belief based on the favourable way the RFU have treated Wasps (remember when they were provisionally allocated a place in next season's Championship?) and the lack of support the RFU have shown for Worcester and London Irish along with with Holland's manoeuvring with Sixways is as I posted above but that is just my opinion and to the best of my knowledge nothing more than my opinion.

But I hope I am wrong and there is some sort of future for a Worcester team at Sixways (and not a Wasps franchise).
#63515
As I have said elsewhere….

The whole disaster of both Wuss and Wasps continues to fascinate. Both very different of course.

Trying to simplify the whole mess, and concentrating on Wasps for the moment, we have Holland saying in as many words that he doesn’t want to combine Wuss and Wasps in any way, and that he wants to bring Wasps to Sixways in some form or other short-term, and then return the heritage brand to it’s roots.

Is that it, more or less?

If so, and assuming he has full control of the stadium and access, what are his options other than 1) start Wasps at level 10, 2) pay off the “rugby creditors” to start in the championship, or 3) try to join the URC.

I have no idea what sort of funding Holland has, or might garner, could those more familiar with the Wasps background educate us? Is he potentially The Messiah or just another Very Naughty Boy?
#64128
Wasps looking at Kent apparently https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67193921

"While Wasps' plans for a new ground go through the planning process, they said they were "actively exploring temporary facilities to underpin its operations in Kent", but could use the home of another former Premiership side that went bust last year - Worcester Warriors - in the short term.

Wasps owner Chris Holland is now the majority shareholder of Worcester after his firm Loxwood Holdings bought the stake of former owners Atlas.

"Whilst determined to establish a base in the south east of England, the club has also agreed an option of utilising Worcester Warriors' Sixways ground for both training and playing purposes, without in any way replacing Worcester Warriors RFC and indeed committed to assisting their return to competitive rugby," the club statement said.

"Our determination to secure a new, sustainable future for the club has never been stronger.

"By working with Sevenoaks District Council, we hope to build a long-lasting legacy that acknowledges our storied past and charts an ambitious future."

Should Wasps have to start at a level below the nationwide third tier, it would make playing games in Worcester difficult as leagues are regionalised - Kent-based sides feed up into National League Two East while teams in the Midlands feed up to National League Two West."
#64129
Interesting isn’t it.

The overall impression is that Holland has a decent plan, but who knows where the money is coming from?

While accepting, for at least the moment, that nothing Wasps might do has any negative effect on Wuss, it leaves me wondering what is the plan for Wuss?

Because at the moment, I see nobody with any similar ambition for Warriors.
#64131
https://wasps.co.uk/club-announcements/ ... t-in-kent/

Yes, it's all very vague in terms of tangibility but I suppose given the various negotiations which must be going on that is inevitable.

At the moment, we think we know that Holland owns / controls the IPs of both Wasps and Worcester and the long lease of the Sixways stadium. The option for Wasps to play at Worcester will therefore have been agreed with himself - or have I got that wrong?

A number of obvious questions occur:

1 ) Which league will Wasps play in?

2) As Ted says, what is the prospect of WW being reborn?

3) What is happening with the rest of the site? If Wasps are to play at Sixways I would have thought that at least some of the site, currently in the hands of the Receivers, would be required - although of course the Receivers could grant short term leases / licences I suppose.

4) What is the time scale of the move to Kent? It's certainly not going to be anytime soon.
#64228
And Owen Slot in this morning’s Times raises again the question of Wasps relaunching in the URC, and throws in a comment which makes it sound as though Prem2 is a done deal.

“ The problem for Wasps has been that there is no certainty of a commercially viable future in the English game. To return into the English system, the best chance of re-entry would be into the Championship, which is soon to be rebranded as Prem2.”

I wonder if anyone else will be given the chance to join Prem2??
#64246
Buried in this article from yesterday was something quite interesting I'm not sure had been widely mentioned before: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67212812

"Logan, 51, a key member of the Wasps Legends Charitable Foundation, is part of a steering committee aiming to get Wasps back to the top level of English rugby, starting with a place in the proposed new two-tier Premiership, if it gets off the ground for 2025-26 - or maybe even a year sooner.

"Hopefully next season," he said. "If not, then it will be the season after."

Worcester Warriors and London Irish have also privately been told that the door remains open for them - and that they would not have to start at the very bottom of the English pyramid, as they had been previously told by the Rugby Football Union."

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