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By TeflonTed
#4228
Typhoon Hagibis will see England v France and New Zealand v Italy games cancelled due to weather concerns.

“World Rugby and the Japan Rugby 2019 Organising Committee have taken the difficult, but right decision to cancel matches in the affected areas on safety grounds. The impacted teams have been informed and are understanding. For matches that do not go ahead as scheduled, two points will be awarded to each team in line with tournament rules.”

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/update

Japan v Scotland on Sunday is subject to review, latest decision time being 6 hrs before ko. If that’s cancelled, 2 pts for Scotland could see them out......but who knows, the way Japan are going Scotland might be spared a worse result. Let’s hope that one goes ahead as scheduled.
By TVM
#4232
Scotland are the only team who could really lay claim to a significant injustice from this (if their cancellation comes to pass), and maybe France.

New Zealand keep their top of pool position, England and France would have likley, though not certainly finished in that order. Italy end up with a creditable 12 points.

Right decision.
By Warrior7
#4246
Surely they could have moved the games to an empty stadium, in an area of Japan not affected by the typhoon (of which there were many) before the typhoon got too close.

The game can then be still played on TV with travelling fans compensated for not being able to watch live, making sure the integrity of the tournament is still intact.

Seems like pretty poor organisation from WR to me.

All of England (not so bad as we would still have played 5 vs Tier 1 nations), France and NZ will now have extra rest and reduced injuries from playing less games. As unlikely as it would have been, Italy miss out on trying to get a bonus point win vs NZ and qualify - and still miss out on an opportunity to play the world's best team.
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By GoldFinch
#4248
There was no stadium with the same capacity as the original one. Which causes an issue with those with tickets.

There should have been a plan be all the same. Sorry a plan C, Plan B was cancelling..
By TVM
#4250
I imagine the logistics are probably rather more complicated than just popping to another stadium, unlocking it and playing behind closed doors. The typhoon and its path haven't been known for months, its been known for a few days with even remote certainty.

I should imagine there is a whole travelling circus to move from A to B to ensure a match can take place, and (in particular) be broadcast - things set up, accommodation for for teams, entorauge and the (probably hundreds strong) media set up to get it broadcast - in an already packed country becasue of the world cup.

Then you have to actually get everyone there at very short notice, including hauling your kit for the broadcast across country again at short notice, and setting it all up in the stadium, testing it, callibrating it.....

The you will likely have the contract you will have made with the stadium owners which allows for its use that will need varying, wear on the pitch if there are other games coming up and the additional costs of hire.

Then you have to expect World Rugby to write a blank cheque for all of this on top of organising it and making it happen?

I just think that's very easy to say for all of us with no actual skin in the game aside from finding something else to do on Saturday morning.

Sorry, but I think you are being overly harsh and I doubt it is as simple as you make it out to be.
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By poyntonshark
#4253
Of course, it's not simple, that's why you have contingencies so you don't have to try to throw it all together at the last minute. There is no absolute need to broadcast rearranged matches. I imagine RWC are forking out hefty compensation to global broadcasters right now. No ground of same capacity is a red herring, there is a zero capacity for a cancelled game.

All that said, I assume everyone was aware of the regulations as well as the possibility of Typhoons. The recent cricket world cup had several games drawn due to weather and no-one batted an eyelid (weather affected results, of course, much more common in cricket).

A difficult situation no doubt, with no perfect solution but ultimately RWC chose to hold the World Cup in Japan in Typhoon season and didn't make contingencies.
By TVM
#4255
Something requiring several types of contingencies depending on where the hurricanes were, where they made land fall, the prevailing conditions elsewhere?

Where do you put the contingency? With whom do you sort it? Whom do you pay? Whom do you organise it with, what private transport do your charter just in case.

There are limits of reasonableness - and it is very well demanding contingencies when our solution is simply to say the word 'contingency.'

Another thought is, closed doors or not, you can guarunttee that hordes of fans would follow the match to the new location - and would that location be ready at short notice. There is a reason these things are arranged far in advance at fixed dates - because influxes of thousands of people into town will take it toll in infrastructure.

Emergency services for example - is a typhoon a time to be streching atuff out yet further?

Its all very well saying 'contingency' but the level of 'contingency' planning to make it work is huge. I am not an imaginative guy - so I am sure I have also missed a bunch of things that need to happen as well.
By SimonG
#4258
It's a shame they can't just put the players, coaches and match officials on a plane to a close-by location/country and play the games behind closed doors (or in front of locals admitted free) but televise them. Obviously it wouldn't be as good but at least the games would be played and progression determined by on-field results.
By Warrior7
#4263
TVM, I am well aware there will be a large amount of logistical problems to be solved, but this is a global showpiece event with a great deal of money poured into it - the cost of moving what you describe is very little when compared with the amount of money the WC will be generating.

Several teams of people could organise what you say in a pretty short time-frame. It is not the easiest to arrange but it certainly is far from impossible. Was there not a Saracens vs Clermont game that went ahead 2-3 days after is was supposed to in the CC fairly recently? And that's a game with less importance, so a lot less money and staff allocated into rearranging it but it still happened.

A contingency could be to have people on standby to organise and prepare for this - we have known the typhoon's rough trajectory for days. I did already state that it would be an empty stadium and I think people who are in Japan would be more receptive to the dangers of travelling than you think.

World Rugby and Japan have had 6 years to prepare for this tournament, I just think it's a bit of a cop-out in an otherwise, very good world cup.
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By TeflonTed
#4271
In amongst the serious points being made, I chuckled out loud at Poynton’s

“The recent cricket world cup had several games drawn due to weather and no-one batted an eyelid”

If you didn’t do that on purpose you should have done.
W4rriorz1980 liked this
By g2forumsm
#4292
[quote=Warrior7 post_id=4263 time=157
""..............
A contingency could be to have people on standby to organise and prepare for this - we have known the typhoon's rough trajectory for days. I did already state that it would be an empty stadium and I think people who are in Japan would be more receptive to the dangers of travelling than you think.

World Rugby and Japan have had 6 years to prepare for this tournament, I just think it's a bit of a cop-out in an otherwise, very good world cup.
[/quote]

As somebody who is out in Japan at the moment, a couple of things. The Japanese are very clear that in case of a typhoon you stay in your home/hotel and do not go outside, this is established practice. One of the big issues is the amount of damage that is left in the trail. Second point, knowing the rough trajectory is one , knowing the exact trajectory is another thing completely. We are 400 kM north of Tokyo at the moment and in theory outside of harms way, yet looking at the path an hour ago, we could very well be caught up in it and we are supposed to be travelling tomorrow, but won’t know until tomorrow if we can.

I have every sympathy with the organisers on this and they are doing the only thing that they can do , in reality there is no contingency and there never could have been.
Flumpty, W4rriorz1980 liked this
By TVM
#4293
g2forumsm wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:54 am


As somebody who is out in Japan at the moment, a couple of things. The Japanese are very clear that in case of a typhoon you stay in your home/hotel and do not go outside, this is established practice. One of the big issues is the amount of damage that is left in the trail. Second point, knowing the rough trajectory is one , knowing the exact trajectory is another thing completely. We are 400 kM north of Tokyo at the moment and in theory outside of harms way, yet looking at the path an hour ago, we could very well be caught up in it and we are supposed to be travelling tomorrow, but won’t know until tomorrow if we can.

I have every sympathy with the organisers on this and they are doing the only thing that they can do , in reality there is no contingency and there never could have been.
Good post. It's very easy to say something should be done, when in reality we are pretty ignorant of the realities of these things.
west brom warrior liked this
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By poyntonshark
#4332
So, assuming the Brian Moore article is accurate (who would expect anything less from a barrister?)

1. There were robust contingencies in place.
2. Those contingencies meaningless if 1 team can veto.
3. Presumably, England and France either chose not to oppose the ruling (drawn game) or decided between them that the extra rest was advantageous to both.
4. Assuming it is still possible and necessary to transport squads after Hagibis hits then Scotland's legal action should be unnecessary as Japan wants to play too. I read an article yesterday, an interview with Jamie Joseph, can't remember where. He said Japan don't want to play to avoid embarrassment, they want to play to confirm, or otherwise that they are good enough for quarter-finals.


edit - Found the Jamie Joseph interview :-Good old Auntie
W4rriorz1980 liked this
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#4342
Watching the weather in Tokyo at the moment you have to say they were right to stop the games going ahead in that region at that time.

Let’s hope the Japan v Scotland game survives.
By FlipFlop
#4457
Scotland were allegedly planning an appeal if their game didn't go ahead, but thankfully they were able to play the game out and lose fair and square rather than on a technicality, and made for one of the games of the RWC, IMO.
Abmatt, W4rriorz1980 liked this
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