By Olyy
#17619
Faf single handedly washing away all the anger I had towards our performance
By Taplow 1861
#17622
I know I’ve edited the reported comment. But I haven't added any words.

“I’ve just told the lads, maybe we’re not good enough ,” the Sale director of rugby said. “We had no answer and maybe we have reached our level. We had opportunities to score tries and we fluffed our lines.”

So we were terrible against Bath and we were worse tonight.

Now what, Mr Diamond?
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#17624
Personally I would have refused to give MOM for that, but no way did one of our backs deserve it.
By StalyShark
#17625
Olyy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:40 pm
Langdon surely our first choice hooker now,
18 lineouts, zero lost, and a try
Never felt like we’d lose one, the exact opposite with Akker sadly.
By StalyShark
#17626
poyntonshark wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:41 pm
Personally I would have refused to give MOM for that, but no way did one of our backs deserve it.
Didn’t control the game well enough at all. Langdon for me.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#17627
Olyy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:40 pm
Langdon surely our first choice hooker now,
18 lineouts, zero lost, and a try
That, at the time, one positive I declined to mention was that we were 100% in the lineout.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#17630
Clutch wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:43 pm
We weren’t terrible against Bath.

Needs a qualifier I think. We weren't terrible all the time against Bath.
User avatar
By Alex
#17631
Thought we'd blown it with some silly errors but we hung in there and just about snatched defeat.

Hopefully can carry over the little momentum we have to the Saints game!
By Clutch
#17633
Losing doesn’t mean you are terrible. It was a 3 point game with 20 to go until the (harsh) yellow killed us.
By Surbiton_Shark
#17634
Quins must be crushed.

Thought Rob deserved MoM - was good throughout

Proper grit to win that one.

I don’t know about everyone else but still pretty worried about our performances for the rest of the season. We were just dire at times - maybe this will take the pressure off.

What a final try from Faff
By Thekeg
#17635
Taplow 1861 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:41 pm
I know I’ve edited the reported comment. But I haven't added any words.

“I’ve just told the lads, maybe we’re not good enough ,” the Sale director of rugby said. “We had no answer and maybe we have reached our level. We had opportunities to score tries and we fluffed our lines.”

So we were terrible against Bath and we were worse tonight.

Now what, Mr Diamond?
We’ve just won a final. How miserable must you be to post this immediately after...
By Van Cannonball
#17636
Defo a forward should’ve got mom, probably JL for me; work rate insane. However, Rob with 5/5 including at least one difficult one and most from wrong side, so hopefully that’s a real shot of confidence and quieten some of the detractors.

Lineout was helped by Quins not competing at all, they were just petrified of our driving maul.

Game could’ve been easier for us if Foley would’ve penalised them for in at the side the huge number of times they disrupted us that way.

Having said all that, thought Cliffs hands were a bit off compared to his recent great form. Marland had a few poor moments again (butchering the RdP break) but improved towards the end, and Hammersley really showed he has no attacking presence in a game where Quins kept giving him the ball.
By Surbiton_Shark
#17638
Just on Hammersley- I know he hasn’t shown a lot in attack but under a high ball - he’s solid as a rock so fair play to him for that
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By Lord Elpus
#17640
Got out of gaol. I thought Wiese was good - a more athletic version of Phillips. The back row got schooled again as at the Stoop.

Hammersley is better under the high ball than Luke James who is better running with the ball.

I thought Dimes left the changes too late. I would have given Faf & Manu at least 30 minutes. Well done Langdon - good shout for motm.
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By DavenportSharky
#17641
They certainly know how to do it the difficult way. Wiped the smug face off Care at least. Thought the commentary team wanted Quins all the way with the worship of their 7. Huge confidence boost for RobDP. Langdon was excellent in all aspects of the game despite being slated just before his try. Wiese did well in lineout and maul. Thought Yarde and Solomona were poor. Sam James finding of the right hand touch is top notch and is a reason he must be the 13. Faf is psychologically a brilliant replacement as is Manu. Faf was a massive step up in making things happen. Good to see Harrison, Josh, Byron, etc there in the photos. Not sure about the Morson caps. Nice to see the Blease t shirts. If we halve the penalty count and cut out the numerous handling errors we could yet upset even Exeter.
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By Lord Elpus
#17643
DavenportSharky wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:07 pm
Nice to see the Blease t shirts. If we halve the penalty count and cut out the numerous handling errors we could yet upset even Exeter.
We also need to get the backs' alignment much better - it's far too flat.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#17645
Thekeg wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:04 pm
Taplow 1861 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:41 pm
I know I’ve edited the reported comment. But I haven't added any words.

“I’ve just told the lads, maybe we’re not good enough ,” the Sale director of rugby said. “We had no answer and maybe we have reached our level. We had opportunities to score tries and we fluffed our lines.”

So we were terrible against Bath and we were worse tonight.

Now what, Mr Diamond?
We’ve just won a final. How miserable must you be to post this immediately after...
To be fair to Taplow, that wasn't posted immediately after the game, we were still behind when that went up. Still a bit OTT for me, but completely understand the frustration at the time.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#17646
Oooh, nearly forgot -
Olyy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:33 pm
poyntonshark wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:27 pm
Looks like we are planning to win tis
Judging off the last 20mins play: I disagree
The defence rests m'lud.
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By DaveAitch
#17649
A win's a win, and a cup, but that's about it. It was a terrible advert for rugby union as a spectator sport. I took the dog for a walk after the game, which gave me back my will to live.
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By Olyy
#17652
Didn't realise it was Morozovs birthday yesterday - not a bad birthday present for him!

He's been great since lockdown, as well - turning the bags of potential into some really good form
By H's D
#17657
I thought Sam James played very well, fully justifying his selection over Manu. Above and beyond his touch-finding, he was the most creative back on the pitch wth numerus examples of fast hands and quick offloads. On several oaccasions his passes to wingers were as flat as possible but the therecipients were usually that critical foot or so in front of where they should have been, leading to three or four missed opportunities. It is incredible difficult to be any more accurate than he was when under such pressure with speed of pass so critical. When our backs did spark into life at times generating good go forward and gathering momentum, it was often his vison and lovely deft touches and offloads that prompted the yardage gains. His inside ball to Langdon when playing at 15 being typical. On another day Langdon would have been through!
Amazing to think he is keeping one of the most powerful centres in the world on the game-changers bench in a cup final. His dad and club are very proud. :dance:

As Dimes indicated Cliff is playing like a top class Sports saloon:; I would say a metallic silver BMW M3.
Whereas Faf, having been more of a somewhat rust-prone unreliable Alfa Romeo T33/2 Daytona since the restart, showed his true pedigree as a bright sunburst yellow Lamborghini Aventador SVJ in scoring that try. :joy:
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By Surbiton_Shark
#17659
Anyone got any thoughts/theories on the number of errors we're making on receiving restarts? - last few games we seem to either don't collect the ball cleanly or in some cases just completely miss it?????

Hasn't been a problem until recently!
By Van Cannonball
#17662
It is a bit odd. I guess the 2nd rows have changed a lot which won’t help. Bryn was good at taking them.

Rohan usually very solid at taking and returning but he and Denny missed a few.

We definitely need Sam somewhere in the line up, I thought he was better when moved to 15, or that may just have been the comparison to Hammers. Bigger issue is who fills that role other than Sam (he can’t play all the time).

Back 3 has not been great for us this season. Byron probably the most consistent winger.
By Beardedshark
#17663
I thought Phillips and Will - Griff made a significant difference when they came on, started getting scrum penalties. Langdon excellent, apart from that everything we tried to do just looked uncontrolled and frantic.

Bit concerned re Ben's ankle
By stevene
#17664
shocking performance pretty much despite the W. lineout starts ok and Wiese proves a good target at no1 jumper and yet we go away from what was working? Like the look of Wiese at 4. Definitely brings a bit of angry man to the second row.

Foley didnt help as the momentum changed with the penalty reversal from the Sale scrum which Danny Care bought. However Tom C needs to get back to basics a little bit more and be a little more like Ben. Since the world cup he seems a lot more chippy. Equally Ross was lucky not to get another reversal for the penalty which took us in front at the end.

Our back 3 are pretty woeful consistently at the moment (bar Luke James). Hammersley needs to learn to straighten his running lines. Yarde and Solomona were awful for an entire 80 mins and thats been a pretty consistent theme. I just wish we had more depth here as neither would be in the starting XV for me.

RJVR was pretty good I thought as was RDP. However I do think RDP (or AJM) needs to get more ball off RJVR crash ball rather than Jono going round the corner. We need to mix this up a bit (albeit with our back 3's form perhaps that explains the limited game plan). Good to see RDP with his kicking boots on. I do think RDP offers a little more ball in hand than AJM but his kicking is a lot more flaky.

DDP and JLDP were good with ball in hand but just wish we could capitalise on it a bit more. Poor hands and control at the ruck is costing us massively. How many turnovers did quins get purely due to their counter rucking and our inability to clean out effectively and legally.

The Faf cameo/ Cliffy in the 9 shirt highlighted the positives and negatives of each of them starting/ not starting. If we are in control and not on the back foot Cliffy gives us good control and his distribution is great. However in the absence of any backline spark (and you could argue he allows more defensive focus away from the ruck) we look anaemic ball in hand outside of one out, forwards round the corner and RJVR on the crash ball.

Anyway after that at least we won and have won a trophy this season.
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By Lord Elpus
#17665
Evans and Beaumont usually took restarts - maybe Wiese should be given the job. Manu is a 12 playing 13 and doesn't have either the creativity or the kicking game for 13.

Whilst on restarts RdP's are poor - usually free ball for the opposition to clear at their convenience. He needs to practise with Callard on getting "hang" on them.
By Olyy
#17667
Lord Elpus wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:10 am
Evans and Beaumont usually took restarts - maybe Wiese should be given the job.
He was - the ball just went 10m past his pod
Surbiton_Shark liked this
By Shaftesbury Shark
#17671
well, all the criticism above is probably accurate, but... it's a final - it's all about the result, nothing more, and Sale found a way to win. that's all that matters.

you could see what it meant to the whole team afterwards, just fantastic to win something. they knew all too well they didn't play as well as they could have done, but I don't think it matters.
By Litzy Cole
#17672
Great to finally snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. I hope this gives the whole squad the confidence they need for the next two games. They looked so happy to get the trophy. They have obviously worked their hearts out for so long without it all gelling consistently that to win something was a massive relief.

Come on Sale!!!!!
By DavenportSharky
#17678
Although we used Wiese for first few lineouts, we then used a number of other jumpers. They all worked fine but there was little attempt to compete by Quins. Part of the problem with De Jager in the lineout was our predictably aiming for him constantly. The secure lineout meant we could finally maul which in turn led to a yellow and 2 tries.
I didn’t think Sam James won selection over Tuilagi, but rather Dimes rewarded where he could the set of players who won the early rounds. He left the World Cup absentees on the bench. Playing with 2 similarly physical players in the centre I think is a mistake unless you are Toulon or the All Blacks. Sam James compliments either JHVR or MT neither of whom fit at 13. Put both of them in the centre and you may as well play iBozz and Lord Elpus on the wings as they will not get a pass all match.
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By HR1861
#17683
Obviously delighted with the result, but what an absolutely terrible advert for the game. Dimes summed it up after the game comparing it to the 9-3 “thriller” in the final he played in against Leicester. No new converts to the game on the back of that.
Hopefully, the lads can take confidence with the win and trophy and we can kick on for the last 2 league games, but really, let’s not kid ourselves - we were terrible, especially in the first half and Dimes knows it.
Forwards were combative and good to see the line out functioning but backs were poor - no penetration at all. Both wingers have lost pace and think HD must have been watching a different game to me re Sam James? Some good kicks but like most others, nothing out of the ordinary.
One day we will click, and run in a bagful of tries, but at present we’re playing like a bunch of individuals who have only just met.
By H's D
#17685
Very strange Davenport, you say Sam wasn't preferred over Tuilagi at 13, outside RVR, :no: but then explain specifically why he was/should be preferred! :lol . That was my point!
I am pretty sure that is exactly why Dimes selected him to start.
The difference was evident to see. More creativity with ball in hand. Even when at 15 it was Sam who was trying different things.
Of course one could reasonably take the view that RVR was really preferred over Manu, but I would suggest our current strongest/best balanced centre pairing is reaffirmed as SJ outside RJVR/MT.
Time will tell.........
By Clutch
#17686
James wasn’t great at all.

The issue with our squad make up is pretty clear. We lack flair and zip in the 3/4. Lots of good players but not much X factor. Part of that is probably lack of form but it’s more than that. Dimes said we won’t be signing anyone for 2 years but unless Reed comes good where’s the spark coming from out wide. That may chance if Yarde inproves and Denny gets back to his best, which to be fair is only a try away from doing. Luke J has been good but he’s in the solid 15 mould. Obviously his improvement curve is insane so no reason we he won’t develop further . Hammersley isn’t good enough for a top 4 challenging team.

I feel the back line needs the excitement of a top class youngster appearing from nowhere. Either James to kick on, or a Reed, Robebuck, Wilkinson, Curtis or Doherty. Or Carpenter.

In truth we’ve never replaced Addison as our X factor 3/4.

Probably shouldn’t be saying this on a thread for the final we have just won but we all want us to kick in and we are so close.
By Olyy
#17687
Roebuck looked really promising the other week - constantly looking for work
By DavenportSharky
#17695
H’sD
By Jove I think you’ve got it.
RHVR was selected ahead of Tuilagi at 12 !!!!
This was part of giving priority to the people who got us to the final.
Sam James is a very good player at 13.
MT and RHVR are very good players at 12 but both are injury prone and both may be missing due to internationals so are similar and interchangeable.
Hammersley was injured just before MT came on hence the reshuffle.
Sam James played well last night but he was not MoM.
Luke James is an even more talented player and should now be the first choice 15.

Do we agree???????
If you are not sure, ask their dad :yes:
By H's D
#17698
Davenport I think YOU need to wake up : the last time out our centre pairing was RJVR (12) and Tuilagi(13). Against Quins previously in August it was Hill (12) and Tuilagi (13). We lost both games. He also played 13 with in the win against against Tigers. Whilst I would concur that I prefer him at 12m we should both be aware he has played at 13 for Sale just as much as 12 since joining us. Many would say his best performances in an England shirt have also been wearing the 13 shirt. Where you play him is up to the coach, how often they swap roles and positions largely makes it immaterial these days anyway , so Sam did indeed keep him out of the starting line-up just as much as RVR.
I do not think loyalty came into it at all. Dimes put what he thought was his best balanced selection out in order to get a win. A trophy was at stake! You do indeed need balanced differing abilities in the centre pairing, on that we agree, but Dimes has been trying different pairings.

James certainly wasn't "great" but he was at least trying different things, not just boshing. Admittedly most of them didn't succeed as well as we would wish but his good hands were evident on several occasions. There is a lot more subtlety to his game than with our other centres. He is a facilitator, If others can't see that potential unless a try is scored as a result, then that is their problem. I cewrtainly watched that game and Sam closely. I suggest others have another look, without the understandable sense of repeated let down...which we all felt live.
Our backs were close to clicking on several occasions but it was often the last pass/catch that went awry. Denny and Yarde both had a bit of a mare in that respect..... Whereas RVR demonstrated his pace and power from a standing start on at least couple of occasions. He also did a couple of good offload attempts after contact. We are getting there......but Quins were pretty durable in defence, Robshaw and Evans were everywhere...On balance they seemed to marginally win the turnover battle, despite Tom making the most critical one towards the end.
By Van Cannonball
#17700
I think we have to acknowledge Quins have been a good defensive side since lockdown at the breakdown, and were helped significantly by loose interpretation of in at the side for most of the contest, compared to how most games have been reffed lately.

Some of the issue is I think we didn’t want to get too isolated from the supporting forwards, that happened a lot in the away game.

Sam J was definitely the one to try and create, but I don’t think things came off as well as they usually do.

In a small defence of our back 3 and especially wingers, they have been excellent defensively for the most part (ignoring Marland when he first came back). We’re the tightest defence in the league and you can’t do that carrying any players.
By Rich E
#17701
A lot of sparring about how good or otherwise Sam James is;
however it seems that the coaching staff are trying to find the right combinations. Sam Hill was a planned recruit, Manu was opportunistic. With the former I would guess SJ was a given at 13, however now we've signed a Lion and we don't really know how to integrate him at the moment. Since his suspension RVR has played really positively in my opinion and both have remained fit/clear of suspension/international call up....
Agreed our back play has lacked some fluidity and so perhaps our choice at 9/10 is part of the jigsaw puzzle.
Personally I loved the way Connaught played when they won the Pro14 with AJ at 10 and Bundee at 12.....
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