By Olyy
#19575
Drops out of the England training squad for the Barbarians game (edit: oh no he doesn't)

Congratulations to Mark Wilson and Alex Mitchell, both technically once of this parish

FORWARDS
Tom Curry, Sale Sharks
Alex Dombrandt, Harlequins*
Tom Dunn, Bath Rugby*
Charlie Ewels, Bath Rugby
Ellis Genge, Leicester Tigers
Jamie George, Saracens
Joe Heyes, Leicester Tigers*
Ted Hill, Worcester Warriors
Maro Itoje, Saracens
Alex Moon, Northampton Saints*
Beno Obano, Bath Rugby*
David Ribbans, Northampton Saints*
Will Stuart, Bath Rugby
Sam Underhill, Bath Rugby
Billy Vunipola, Saracens
Mako Vunipola, Saracens
Mark Wilson, Newcastle Falcons

BACKS
Ali Crossdale, Saracens*
Fraser Dingwall, Northampton Saints*
Owen Farrell, Saracens
Piers Francis, Northampton Saints
George Ford, Leicester Tigers
George Furbank, Northampton Saints
Willi Heinz, Gloucester Rugby
Jonathan Joseph, Bath Rugby
Ollie Lawrence, Worcester Warriors*
Joe Marchant, Harlequins
Jonny May, Gloucester Rugby
Alex Mitchell, Northampton Saints*
Ollie Thorley, Gloucester Rugby*
Anthony Watson, Bath Rugby
Ben Youngs, Leicester Tigers

*denotes uncapped players





EDIT:

Or maybe this should say potential Curry?
He's in the image they posted of the squad, but not the squad list



Double Edit:
They've updated their page with him in now
By Olyy
#19577
FarnhamShark wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:53 am
Should we be worried that he's the only SS player in a squad of 32?
Maybe, but then who's missed out?

I think Luke James can feel hard done by considering how poor Furbank has been since lockdown ended,
Sam James maybe, but Lawrence has been floating around the EPS for a while and is a fine player - I don't rate Francis, so could've been there for him as a playmaking centre. I'm surprised Redpath isn't there as he's been in fine form for Bath and training with England multiple times in the past.
Denny hasn't really been on the radar for a while, same with JCW and Hill (Hill could've had a look in with Manu injured, but Lawrence has taken that spot)
Ben is injured

I think if the international season wasn't so condensed and the Barbarians fixture was an actual exhibition rather than a warmup for the remaining 6N/Autumn Nations cup then we might have seen one or two more players in (like in the past when Harrison and Beaumont have played) but as it stands I think it's only really the Curry brothers (and, imo, L James) that are really banging on the door atm
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#19588
Surbiton_Shark wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:17 pm
How Spencer doesn't get a look in and Youngs and....Heinz....are deemed are best scrum halves is just beyond me
Youngs & Ford have the negatives - Heinz has copies.
DavenportSharky liked this
By DavenportSharky
#19593
Worse is that it is only one from Sale in 32 from just 9 out of 13 clubs. Spencer, Malins, Luke James, Sam James, Marcus Smith and Jono Ross would be in my 32. Furbank and Francis are a great surprise. Especially for the Baa Baas you would be wanting to blood some talent rather than wasting places on Youngs and Heinz. It will be interesting to see the 6N squad with currently unavailable players up for selection. 6 Saints and 4 Tigers selected when they have been dreadful recently. Irish meanwhile are out in the cold.
User avatar
By iBozz
#19603
Just a thought (before my first coffee of the day so E&OE), but surely the selection of both teams will be influenced by recent C-19 tests and outbreaks? Maybe the "ideal" se;ection hasn't been possible for that reason.

At a slight tangent, on Friday Greater Manchester join other areas in Tier 3 lockdown, with others following on Saturday I believe. Will that affect the ability players living in those areas to travel and "work" in other areas, whatever levels HQ may be under by then?

It's bad enough trying to work out whether I can talk to myself in my own kitchen and whether I need to wear a mask to go into the dining room without trying to understand the finer details of this lockdown omnishambles. :dizzy:
By chris1850
#19607
iBozz wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:30 am
Just a thought (before my first coffee of the day so E&OE), but surely the selection of both teams will be influenced by recent C-19 tests and outbreaks? Maybe the "ideal" se;ection hasn't been possible for that reason.

At a slight tangent, on Friday Greater Manchester join other areas in Tier 3 lockdown, with others following on Saturday I believe. Will that affect the ability players living in those areas to travel and "work" in other areas, whatever levels HQ may be under by then?

It's bad enough trying to work out whether I can talk to myself in my own kitchen and whether I need to wear a mask to go into the dining room without trying to understand the finer details of this lockdown omnishambles. :dizzy:
I suspect that professional sportsmen will be exempt from the restrictions
By SimonG
#19608
chris1850 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:53 am
iBozz wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:30 am
Just a thought (before my first coffee of the day so E&OE), but surely the selection of both teams will be influenced by recent C-19 tests and outbreaks? Maybe the "ideal" se;ection hasn't been possible for that reason.

At a slight tangent, on Friday Greater Manchester join other areas in Tier 3 lockdown, with others following on Saturday I believe. Will that affect the ability players living in those areas to travel and "work" in other areas, whatever levels HQ may be under by then?

It's bad enough trying to work out whether I can talk to myself in my own kitchen and whether I need to wear a mask to go into the dining room without trying to understand the finer details of this lockdown omnishambles. :dizzy:
I suspect that professional sportsmen will be exempt from the restrictions
I believe they have been for some time at least whilst pursuing their livelihood. (But not whilst inviting ladies of dubious nature to their homes for "entertainment" like some local "sportsmen" of course!).
By ageinghoody
#19619
"Dubious"?

I didn't think there was any doubt involved!

Although I'm not sure I'd have used "nature"; they may well be perfectly pleasant people. :yes:
By ageinghoody
#19628
SimonG wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:44 pm
But perfectly pleasant people don't flout covid restrictions!
Must be an awful lot of unpleasant people around then, :lol
By WillC
#19633
SimonG wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:44 pm
But perfectly pleasant people don't flout covid restrictions!
That's a bit naïve I'm afraid. There are plenty of otherwise perfectly pleasant people flouting covid restrictions.
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By SimonG
#19635
ageinghoody wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:39 pm
SimonG wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:44 pm
But perfectly pleasant people don't flout covid restrictions!
Must be an awful lot of unpleasant people around then, :lol
Yes it seems there are.
By Olyy
#19864
Tom starts at 6 this weekend,
The Kamikaze Kids back together on the flanks

Decent side - I'd have liked a look at a different 8, and a different 9, but Billy and Youngs start when fit, so not surprising.

Can't get my head around Furbank starting at all

ENGLAND MEN XV
15. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 43 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 50 caps)
12. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 56 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 83 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 99 caps)
1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 59 caps)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 49 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 35 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 38 caps)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
6. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 23 caps)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps)

FINISHERS
16. Tom Dunn, (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
17. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 18 caps)
18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
20. Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 3 caps)
21. Dan Robson (Wasps, 2 caps)
22. Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, uncapped)
23. Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
By Elgar
#19866
Totally agree @Olyy on 8, 9 and 15.

Thorley has done a lot more over the last two seasons to warrant a start than Furbank (bearing in mind Watson can cover - of not perform better at - 15). So have a few others that weren't even in the squad.

The Ben Spencer thing doesn't bear repeating. But I just did.

Interested to see Slade at 12 with a relatively light weight centre partner. If that can work then it really opens up a lot of options.

Well deserved for Dunn, Stuart and Lawrence.

What's happened to Launchbury? Charlie Ewells isn't ahead of him on form or rep is he!?
By DavenportSharky
#19874
Bizarre. Furbank justification is that he can cover 10. He has not performed at 15 never mind 10. Willis not even benching. Spencer absent. You could quite easily name an out of favour squad to rival that if not better it. Eddie is probably the most stubborn selector in World rugby.
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User avatar
By IrishShark
#19948
England playing with very little spice right now, I know that England didn't have a warm up match but Ireland had their warm up against Italy!
By Olyy
#19949
Very odd game - we usually start international periods poorly, and this was no exception.
We also had a weird game plan of putting up bombs constantly on attack - but then barely chasing them. So much wasted possession.

Thought Tom had a good game, and his try was very good.
Packed down in the 2nd row for a few scrums when Hill was off - don't get any ideas Dimes :P
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#19964
Agree Curry was excellent - but he needs to stop getting involved in handbags, retaliation is always punished more than provocation.

Strange selection and strange tactics by EJ - but it's hight time we played what's in front of us instead of slavishly following the game plan. Others have said this but watching England is like watching Sale but not Exeter. Good bits and then going off the boil for long periods. EJ needed to bring Robson on earlier (60 mins or earlier) and he needed Simmonds to go to 10, Farrell to 12 and Slade to 13.

The Sorries lot looked very rusty unsurprisingly. The Vunipola brothers were unimpressive - Mako didn't look fit (does he ever?) and Billy is protecting his bones.

I hope the two Simmonds boys get a go in the Autumn Ints. if they go ahead. We needed another 10 last night.
By Surbiton_Shark
#19997
Lord Elpus wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:33 pm
Agree Curry was excellent - but he needs to stop getting involved in handbags, retaliation is always punished more than provocation.

Strange selection and strange tactics by EJ - but it's hight time we played what's in front of us instead of slavishly following the game plan. Others have said this but watching England is like watching Sale but not Exeter. Good bits and then going off the boil for long periods. EJ needed to bring Robson on earlier (60 mins or earlier) and he needed Simmonds to go to 10, Farrell to 12 and Slade to 13.

The Sorries lot looked very rusty unsurprisingly. The Vunipola brothers were unimpressive - Mako didn't look fit (does he ever?) and Billy is protecting his bones.

I hope the two Simmonds boys get a go in the Autumn Ints. if they go ahead. We needed another 10 last night.
In Curry's defence - especially early in the game he was constantly getting held down by the Italians but I guess in this day and age that's part/parcel of the modern game

The game was pretty dire to watch, your comment about England playing like Sale echoes my own thoughts - when we kept ball in hand with the forwards playing with intensity we looked good - like Sale - England just seemed to switch off and what little ball we had - we promptly booted it away. As a spectacle it was poor - though I greatly enjoyed the Italians celebrating a penalty like they won the World Cup - I suspect they need to focus on other areas - primarily a defensive line would be a good a starter

Like others noticed - Curry's try was very Faff like - if memory serves the Prem Cup Final

In comparison I hugely enjoyed France vs Wales - thought the French 9 was fantastic - it's really good for world rugby having a strong French side
By Elgar
#20002
Willing to eat my words about Ben Youngs.

But fear that if Billy Vunipola doesn't capitalise on having his gametime managed in the next season (due to not playing or a club registered in an active league) then (on form... not rep) he should be 4th or 5th down the depth chart behind Dombrandt, Earl, Curry (opening up other options like Willis or Ben Curry on the flank), Simmonds, maybe even Wilson or Ludlum.
By JohnJ of HM
#20003
Surbiton_Shark wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:12 pm
Lord Elpus wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:33 pm
Agree Curry was excellent - but he needs to stop getting involved in handbags, retaliation is always punished more than provocation.

Strange selection and strange tactics by EJ - but it's hight time we played what's in front of us instead of slavishly following the game plan. Others have said this but watching England is like watching Sale but not Exeter. Good bits and then going off the boil for long periods. EJ needed to bring Robson on earlier (60 mins or earlier) and he needed Simmonds to go to 10, Farrell to 12 and Slade to 13.

The Sorries lot looked very rusty unsurprisingly. The Vunipola brothers were unimpressive - Mako didn't look fit (does he ever?) and Billy is protecting his bones.

I hope the two Simmonds boys get a go in the Autumn Ints. if they go ahead. We needed another 10 last night.
In Curry's defence - especially early in the game he was constantly getting held down by the Italians but I guess in this day and age that's part/parcel of the modern game

The game was pretty dire to watch, your comment about England playing like Sale echoes my own thoughts - when we kept ball in hand with the forwards playing with intensity we looked good - like Sale - England just seemed to switch off and what little ball we had - we promptly booted it away. As a spectacle it was poor - though I greatly enjoyed the Italians celebrating a penalty like they won the World Cup - I suspect they need to focus on other areas - primarily a defensive line would be a good a starter

Like others noticed - Curry's try was very Faff like - if memory serves the Prem Cup Final

In comparison I hugely enjoyed France vs Wales - thought the French 9 was fantastic - it's really good for world rugby having a strong French side
Agreed French 9 was fantastic but I thought he was playing against Ireland
By Olyy
#20270
Curry on the bench this weekend:
Image



Bit of a weird side. No offence to Georgia but if you can't try out a new 9 and/or 10 vs them, then who can you try them against?
EJ spends two weeks bigging up Thorley only to start a centre on the wing?
Itoje at 6 instead of Ted Hill?
Not looking at a different 8?

Just....odd.

That said: Looking forward to seeing Willis and Lawrence out there, and Genge and Stuart more than deserving of a start.
Will be keeping an eye on Ewells, too - I've never thought he was anything special at Bath (just a good prem standard lock) but EJ rates him very highly.
By Elgar
#20273
Makes sense to me to keep the Sarries players involved since they won't have any rugby outside of the England camp.

Three new starters plus Dunn (1 cap), Robson (not many caps), Marchant (not many), Malins (0) is quite progressive as long as those on the bench get at least 25 mins.

I like Joseph on the wing. If we can find configurations to get him in the 23 whilst keeping space for at least two of the likes of Tuilagi, Slade, Daly and potentially Lawrence then that's a good result.
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#20282
Fwiw i think playing/risking Itoje is daft. he's the only world class lock we have now Kruis has left. There are plenty of others at 6 to try.

As for Ewels - I would prefer Ewers for the future.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#20290
The cancelled Baabaa's game probably still having some effect. The win against Italy wasn't a great performance, EJ probably wants to still see some regulars up to speed. Also, wholesale changes rarely do any good, he needs to see how the newcomers play within an England side, he won't see that by changing all of them.
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