#66198
At 29, with injury problems and not a great amount of recent appearances, Roots feels like exactly the type of player we don’t need. Feels like a one year stop gap at best.

Roots replacing Wiese and then possibly Ewels replacing Hill is a downgrade on our current second row stocks.

4. Bamber 5. Ewels 19. Roots - not good enough. Can see JL Du Preez put in there with Bamber and then Ewels to bench?

Genuine fear that the Du Preez twins will leave after next year and we will be be a shadow of the team that reached the final last season.
#66215
I agree Cobus is one of our best signings. I was implying that it appears that we are having
to bring back players before they are fully fit. As a consequence they do not function
at full capacity and break down again. I assume that it is "needs must" because of our
smaller squad.
#66216
With regards to Cobus I agree he has not been as effective since the injury, but that doesn't mean he has been bad. Pre injury he was arguably our most consistent and most effective forward.

Still played well since, but not quite hit the heights of this time last year.
Oh Danny Boy liked this
#66217
Wiese is invaluable to the scrum and maul - think Mills is the last player I can remember who made such a noticeable different to our setpiece when he was/wasn't in the side

Whoever we sign to replace has to be able to step into that role (does sound like the guy we're linked to is a very big lump, tbf)
#66231
Hear me out - surely Saracens would consider Geroge Ford as a Farrell replacement given Ford is free to move on this summer?

I see a lot of rugby news outlets touting Paddy Jackson, Garbisi, Hastings.

Quick one on Farrell - been with Saracens for 15 years and deserves the chance to play abroad. I like that he will be playing under the man who first capped him for England as well.
#66232
RinTin wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:14 am
Hear me out - surely Saracens would consider Geroge Ford as a Farrell replacement given Ford is free to move on this summer?
Feel like they'd be more likely to go after Pollard, but depends if they want someone EQP - guess they'd also have to battle the Japanese clubs for Pollard, though his form this season isn't great (but then neither is Ford's)

I don't think Ford would leave us for another Prem side other than maybe Tigers, though - just for logistical reasons, as he's heavily involved in his restaurant's running so would want somewhere he could easily get back. I could see him moving abroad if the money was right (i.e. take a sabbatical from running the restaurant...but come back in a year with the cash to open a second one)
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#66238
Agree with @Olyy re Sarries replacing Farrell and Ford's likely next move (if any).

I think Sarries will find Farrell almost impossible to replace on a like for like basis for £ that fits within the overall cap. But I can see how they might do well to move Lozowski to 10 and let him and Goode, from 15, steer the ship between them, making room for Hartly (who looks like his potential is very high) and Tompkins to thrive in the midfield together.

(which would be a style of play that might tempt Malins back to play 15).
#66239
I rate Lozowski, but they would be essentially shoe horning him into the role. Sarries have used Goode there ahead of Lozowki in the last 12 months which suggests to me he is not next in line.

If Jacob Umaga had not resigned for Benetton it would be good to see him back in the prem. He has been in great form. Other option is Joe Simmonds back in the prem.

On Lozowki I remember many on here were pining for him a few years back before he went to Montpellier. I was certainly one.
#66240
Lozowski's a superb player but yeah, bit of an ask to convert him to full time/first choice flyhalf at 31 - I've no doubt he'd do a job, like how Goode has when he's stepped into the role, but gotta imagine they'd be looking for a new signing

Simmonds would be a great signing
#66241
I'd understood that Lozowski played 10 all season, with some success, for Montpellier when he was loaned there whilst Sarries were in the Champ. So I'm not sure it would be a case of shoehorning him.

I think Goode tends to cover 10 before Lozowski at the moment because there's more back-up to Goode at 15 than there is to Lozowski in their midfield. I think that's going the other way now with Malins leaving, Maitland's form tailing off and one or two young centres maturing.

All of this is a plan B to getting in a 10 as good as Simmonds under the cap. But I suspect that plan A would be very difficult for them to achieve on.

I think there'd be a noticeable downside for Sarries, much as I like about Umaga's play, by keeping their backline as it is and just swapping Farrell for Umaga. Could only see that happening if they were going to move on or loose Goode and replace him with a flyer or a strike runner at 15.
#66242
Elgar wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:59 pm
I'd understood that Lozowski played 10 all season, with some success, for Montpellier when he was loaned there whilst Sarries were in the Champ. So I'm not sure it would be a case of shoehorning him.

I think Goode tends to cover 10 before Lozowski at the moment because there's more back-up to Goode at 15 than there is to Lozowski in their midfield. I think that's going the other way now with Malins leaving, Maitland's form tailing off and one or two young centres maturing.

All of this is a plan B to getting in a 10 as good as Simmonds under the cap. But I suspect that plan A would be very difficult for them to achieve on.

I think there'd be a noticeable downside for Sarries, much as I like about Umaga's play, by keeping their backline as it is and just swapping Farrell for Umaga. Could only see that happening if they were going to move on or loose Goode and replace him with a flyer or a strike runner at 15.
He was split between bench, centre and fly half all season for them and since coming back to Sarries has started at 10 once in 2 and half seasons by the looks of it. Montpelier was 3 years ago. He can certainly play there, just like Slade can or Bedlow can, but he's not a 10.

If Farrell goes they will have an enormous amount within the cap given he was the marquee - they can move Itoje into that slot and use his salary to recruit heavily at fly half. Billy looks to be off as well of course.
#66243
RinTin wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:53 pm
Elgar wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:59 pm
I'd understood that Lozowski played 10 all season, with some success, for Montpellier when he was loaned there whilst Sarries were in the Champ. So I'm not sure it would be a case of shoehorning him.

I think Goode tends to cover 10 before Lozowski at the moment because there's more back-up to Goode at 15 than there is to Lozowski in their midfield. I think that's going the other way now with Malins leaving, Maitland's form tailing off and one or two young centres maturing.

All of this is a plan B to getting in a 10 as good as Simmonds under the cap. But I suspect that plan A would be very difficult for them to achieve on.

I think there'd be a noticeable downside for Sarries, much as I like about Umaga's play, by keeping their backline as it is and just swapping Farrell for Umaga. Could only see that happening if they were going to move on or loose Goode and replace him with a flyer or a strike runner at 15.
He was split between bench, centre and fly half all season for them and since coming back to Sarries has started at 10 once in 2 and half seasons by the looks of it. Montpelier was 3 years ago. He can certainly play there, just like Slade can or Bedlow can, but he's not a 10.

If Farrell goes they will have an enormous amount within the cap given he was the marquee - they can move Itoje into that slot and use his salary to recruit heavily at fly half. Billy looks to be off as well of course.
I thought it was reported that Maro and Owen were both marquee - that was the problem that they couldn't keep both as one would now have to come under the cap.

Assuming Maro is staying as the marquee, Sarries will need to free up enough cash elsewhere to find a 10. Tough ask but we did it.
#66246
RinTin wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 2:28 pm
It's only 1 marquee player per team isn't it??
Was two, then reduced to one - any player that was a marquee while it was two was allowed to stay as marquee until the end of their current contract (so that teams didn't suddenly gain a few hundred K of salary they hadn't accounted for when making signings)
Farrell and Itoje were both marquee at Saracens but only one could stay as marquee beyond their current contracts
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#66249
RinTin wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:53 pm

He was split between bench, centre and fly half all season for them and since coming back to Sarries has started at 10 once in 2 and half seasons by the looks of it. Montpelier was 3 years ago. He can certainly play there, just like Slade can or Bedlow can, but he's not a 10.
When Montpellier won the European Challenge Cup they started him, at 10, in the final. Over Pollard who benched and Goosen (who played 13) and Bouthier (15) who could each have covered 10.

If Lozowski wasn't playing 10 for them all season that year then I'm not sure who was given that selection and that Pollard was injured for a lot of that year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/rugby-union/57134959
#66250
He played 12 games at 10 for Montpellier, including all of their challenge cup knockout games

I hadn't realised he'd played as much 10 as he has tbh, maybe he is a viable option as a starter there - be interesting to see if they give him some game time there this season when he's back from injury
#66251
Elgar wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 6:05 pm
RinTin wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:53 pm

He was split between bench, centre and fly half all season for them and since coming back to Sarries has started at 10 once in 2 and half seasons by the looks of it. Montpelier was 3 years ago. He can certainly play there, just like Slade can or Bedlow can, but he's not a 10.
When Montpellier won the European Challenge Cup they started him, at 10, in the final. Over Pollard who benched and Goosen (who played 13) and Bouthier (15) who could each have covered 10.

If Lozowski wasn't playing 10 for them all season that year then I'm not sure who was given that selection and that Pollard was injured for a lot of that year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/rugby-union/57134959
9 bench appearances for Lozowski, 6 starts at centre.

Pollard injured for much as you say so Lozowski went to 10 for the second part mainly. Certainly not first choice and put there due to injuries.
#66383
HerefordShark wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:53 pm
Rugby paper reporting that Hill's move is now under threat following his injury. Gutted for him personally if that's the case. Also more talk of LCD and Sam James to France.
Real shame for him professionally if it scuppers his move. Could mean he stays with us though and continues to try to find his best form and get back into England reckoning. Still only 29 of course.

Are you a Lucs follower?
#66384
As above, can actually see Hill extending for a year with us now and pushing the French dream back to 25/26 season. Their medicals are notoriously rigorous and I can’t see Lyon wanting to risk it. Expect we had him on a 2 + 1 contract so it’s just a case of both agreeing to activate that final year?

It may be that we have already signed Roots and Ewels, however, if not then this would probably make sense. He had started to improve of late!

On another note, we will go into our last 6 prem and 1 challenge cup matches with the following back 5 players (potentially); Beaumont, Bamber, JLDP(?), Groves, B Curry, Dugdale, Van Rhyn, Birch…

Bearing in mind Groves not trusted, that’s 7 players I can think of covering 7 matchday squad positions.

Basing that on
- Wiese looked like a serious shoulder injury?
- Hill out for season
- T Curry out for season
- Dan Du Preez looked like a serious knee injury
- Ellis has got a toe broken in 3 places which will be fairly lengthy

Genuinely think we need to look to get 1/2 players in as cover
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#66387
Olyy wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 11:06 am
Birch didn't look good going off, either - possible shoulder dislocation or ligament issue?
I don't think he'd have gone off unless it was 100% something serious as we had no more forwards to come on
So potentially 6 trusted forwards to cover 7 matchday positions. Even if we brought in Woodman and Groves, 8 players for 7 spots isn’t sufficient for a 7 match run. Don’t know who is available but need the cavalry for the end of March
#66434
To be honest I can understand it. Bath is where his whole career is and suddenly they are looking like top challengers again. He must have been given assurances about being first choice.

Wouldn't surprise me if his agent leaked word of the Sale meeting to get a decent extension offer from Bath.
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#66564
StalyShark wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 1:21 pm
Spink was great for Wasps and, I believe, had been good in Super Rugby for the Force. Savvy signing it true.
He was very good for the Force. He and Kibirige were highlights for them.

Think he's lining up for them again this year so hope he goes well. When Wasps collapsed I was really keen on us taking a look at him.
#66567
Wonder if that suggests Sam James is leaving?
According to all.rugby Spink plays exclusively at 13 (last game at 12 was his debut season in the Prem cup in 2017)

Doesn't seem like a Manu replacement - unless Luke James returns from injury as a 12 instead of a 15
Possibly RMW as well (not sure which position he'll end up in, as he's bouncing around the backline atm), and then Bedlow Jr playing 12 at Donny
#66578
Bucks1861 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:59 pm
Yeah I saw that as well.

Personally I think we do need a change.

Manu, thanks mate. Good luck for the future. But you’re injured way too often.
Tend to agree, for his sake as well as ours.

Couldn't begrudge him a French payday before the almost inevitable career-ending episode comes along.
#66584
RinTin wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:52 am
StalyShark wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 1:21 pm
Spink was great for Wasps and, I believe, had been good in Super Rugby for the Force. Savvy signing it true.
He was very good for the Force. He and Kibirige were highlights for them.

Think he's lining up for them again this year so hope he goes well. When Wasps collapsed I was really keen on us taking a look at him.
In the squad shots for this season and not heard anything to indicate he will not be here.
#66598
Olyy wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:36 pm
Super Rugby season finishes in June, doesn't it?
I would've thought any potential move would be after that, not mid season (for us or Force)
Yes. Regular season 1st week and then playoffs.
Force play B+I Lions end of June.
#66611
Esterhuizen all but confirmed to the Sharks for next season, with our old mucker RJVR off to Bordeaux (actually already left Sharks for a stint at Canon Eagles with Faf). https://www.planetrugby.com/news/spring ... esse-kriel

Links being thrown around about Quins potentially buying Lawrence out of his contract which makes no sense at all. They seemingly want another Andre type player. Given Manu almost certainly appears to be moving next summer could Quins make a move for him? I could see it.
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