[RinTin]

Forwards: Ollie Chessum, Dan Cole, Alex Coles, Luke Cowan-Dickie, Chandler Cunningham-South, Ben Curry Theo Dan, Alex Dombrandt, Ben Earl, Ellis Genge, Jamie George (capt), Joe Heyes, Nick Isiekwe, Maro Itoje, Joe Marler, Beno Obano, Tom Pearson, Ethan Roots, Will Stuart, Sam Underhill.

Backs: Oscar Beard, Danny Care, Elliot Daly, Fraser Dingwall, Immanuel Feyi-Waboso, George Ford, Tommy Freeman, George Furbank, Ollie Lawrence, Alex Mitchell, Tom Roebuck, Henry Slade, Fin Smith, Marcus Smith, Ben Spencer, Freddie Steward.

Sale with very low representation. Cannot believe Cokanasiga and Martin have been left out.

Thought Ross would be there.

[Alex]

Congrats to Tom for his first call up!

Well done to Luke & Ben for getting back in the squad too!

[Olyy]

Pleased for JG being captain, he was always my first choice from those available - hopefully doesn't limit the gametime for Theo Dan, though

Don't think LCD has earned his callup, especially as he's likely to go to France at the end of the season - Langdon arguably the form hooker in the league atm

Really pleased to see Ben Spencer there, and obviously Roebuck and Ben too - well deserved

Beard a surprise for me, been playing well but never would've thought an international call up was on the cards

Barbeary deserves to be there over Roots or Chandler Cunningham-South - maybe they've left him out so that his ban runs out and then they'll call him up first week of the tournament? England players miss the next round of the prem so if he's unavailable for that the ban would run into the 6N

[Bucks1861]

Well one reason I suspect we are lower is the injuries to our England qualified players:- Tom Curry, Bevan Ross, Manu. Plus Hill being out of favour.

Cokanasiga - I’m not surprised. Watching the Bath game at the weekend Austin Healey outlined some of his deficiencies.

He can attack, his defensive positioning was in need of improvement.

To the Sale lads selected - congratulations!!!

[Olyy]

Yeah, Cokanasiga has a very limited skillset - he's great at what he does, when on form, but don't think that's enough at international level, especially with how poor he is in decision making and under the high ball

[Olyy]

Very interested in the makeup of the A game team now - will it be partly EPS players and then others from outside the group to fill in the gaps?

Furbank has definitely earned his spot in the EPS but I hope that Carps gets a shot at the A game, and they don't just put Furbank in it for game time if Steward is starting in the 6N side

[Olyy]

Raffi and Manu included in the squad as walking wounded (alongside George Martin, Anthony Watson and JvP)

Wild that Raffi still in consideration considering his form over the last two seasons

Barbeary not included as they're waiting on the result of his disciplinary hearing, so think my guess above was right

[RinTin]

I of course see the point re Cokanasiga - he previously has not performed for England (same can be said of Dombrandt). But this season he has been an altogether better player, especially under the high ball. Bath vs Quins in December really showed how far he had come.

Blooding of Roebuck and Feyi-Waboso means some established players go so I suppose they are being given a chance at his expense.

I'm excited for this, good mix of youth and experience. I hope SB lets them play their natural games as our back selections include some very exciting players.

[Surbiton_Shark]

Glad to see Spencer in

[chris1850]

Quirke and Tuilagi specifically mentioned as not considered due to injury. What about Bevan.....?

[Olyy]

Quirke and Tuilagi specifically mentioned as not considered due to injury. What about Bevan.....?

Probably due to it being a longer term issue - Manu and Raffi due back within the next few weeks, Axe said Rodd isn't due back until after the 6N

[Yareet]

Dickie’s withdrawn due to injury

[Olyy]

ENGLAND TEAM TO PLAY ITALY
Starting
15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 31 caps)
14. Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 3 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 57 caps)
12. Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
11. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 64 caps)
10. George Ford (Sale Sharks, 91 caps) – vice captain
9. Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 88 caps)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 85 caps) – captain
3. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 33 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 76 caps) – vice captain
5. Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 18 caps)
6. Ethan Roots (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 30 caps)
8. Ben Earl (Saracens, 25 caps)

Replacements
16. Theo Dan (Saracens, 7 caps)
17. Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 58 caps) – vice captain
18. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 107 caps)
19. Alex Coles (Northampton Saints, 3 caps)
20. Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins, uncapped)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 96 caps)
22. Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
23. Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)


Congrats to George for the start and vice captaincy

Not over the moon with the side but SBs never been one to push the boat out

[Basilbullneck]

I wonder if George's knee is up to the place kicking? Presumably so.

[JohnJ of HM]

Asher and Alex both start for U20s

[Beardedshark]

Got to say, not the side I would have gone with. Parson and curry in the back row. I believe Dickson is injured and care in. Think I would have gone Finn Smith, Dingwall Freeman , Roebuck , Feye-waboso and steward in the backs. That looks exciting to me.
Fast back row, quick ball creativity in the midfield and pace out wide to finish things off. Or maybe I’m just a dreamer

[Yareet]

Got to say, not the side I would have gone with. Parson and curry in the back row. I believe Dickson is injured and care in. Think I would have gone Finn Smith, Dingwall Freeman , Roebuck , Feye-waboso and steward in the backs. That looks exciting to me.
Fast back row, quick ball creativity in the midfield and pace out wide to finish things off. Or maybe I’m just a dreamer

Exciting maybe but also only 34 caps - of which 31 are Steward's. That's something of a risk - great if it pays off but imagine the headlines if that backline were the first English loss to Italy.

I can see the sense in dropping in newbies with experience around them

And with the exception of Tom, all of the backline you mention are likely to get on the park - just no necessarily at the same time.

[ale shark]

Some bold and brave selections against a talented Italian team that ran both France and NZ so close in the recent World Cup.

Hardly surprising people are losing interest in the game.

[RinTin]

I don't like particularly like this team, but as mentioned already SB was never going to re invent the wheel.

The annoying thing is that this is, realistically, the best game to blood new players and just try something new. Instead we 1 new cap in the backs (won't play again when Lawrence and Manu are back) and a new cap at 6. No Pearson, no Curry, no chance for Finn Smith to start a game, no Roebuck anywhere. Again a man who plays as a centre has been put on the wing ahead of a player who only plays wing. How demoralising is that!

I like the guys on the bench. CCS, Dann, Smith and Feyi-Waboso will bring some spark and energy (assuming we have Italy on the canvass). If we are struggling though I doubt the new guys will get on.

Pretty uninspired by this but lets see how we play.

@ale shark enjoyed that.

[RinTin]

Got to say, not the side I would have gone with. Parson and curry in the back row. I believe Dickson is injured and care in. Think I would have gone Finn Smith, Dingwall Freeman , Roebuck , Feye-waboso and steward in the backs. That looks exciting to me.
Fast back row, quick ball creativity in the midfield and pace out wide to finish things off. Or maybe I’m just a dreamer

Exciting maybe but also only 34 caps - of which 31 are Steward's. That's something of a risk - great if it pays off but imagine the headlines if that backline were the first English loss to Italy.

I can see the sense in dropping in newbies with experience around them

And with the exception of Tom, all of the backline you mention are likely to get on the park - just no necessarily at the same time.

So play Mitchell with Finn, Slade with Freeman in the centres, then Steward with new wingers. Spine of experience in Mitchell, Slade and Steward, with new guys around. If it doesn't work you then have time to get Care, Ford and Daly on from the bench to bring level heads if needed.

[Olyy]

I'm not so hot on CCS this season - he wasn't very good over the summer with the u20s (one or two highlights but generally not great, especially considering how good he was at Irish last season) and hasn't found his feet massively at Quins yet (though is improving)

He's definitely got bags of potential, but he's only had 4 starts this season - think he'd be better off starting for the u20s and maybe playing in the A game vs Portugal tbh

[Yareet]

Got to say, not the side I would have gone with. Parson and curry in the back row. I believe Dickson is injured and care in. Think I would have gone Finn Smith, Dingwall Freeman , Roebuck , Feye-waboso and steward in the backs. That looks exciting to me.
Fast back row, quick ball creativity in the midfield and pace out wide to finish things off. Or maybe I’m just a dreamer

Exciting maybe but also only 34 caps - of which 31 are Steward's. That's something of a risk - great if it pays off but imagine the headlines if that backline were the first English loss to Italy.

I can see the sense in dropping in newbies with experience around them

And with the exception of Tom, all of the backline you mention are likely to get on the park - just no necessarily at the same time.

So play Mitchell with Finn, Slade with Freeman in the centres, then Steward with new wingers. Spine of experience in Mitchell, Slade and Steward, with new guys around. If it doesn't work you then have time to get Care, Ford and Daly on from the bench to bring level heads if needed.

That's a selection that makes a lot of sense. Also (FTR) I get that having Steward at 15 means we need another playmaker somewhere. Slade is on fire atm so I'm not sure we need Daly as well. He's not even in for his left boot (again, Slade covers that)

[ale shark]

Yareet - it’s a little publicised law but, to keep a cap on our massive arrogance, World Rugby mandates that England always has to start with at least one player who plays out of position and can only run sideways.

[Surbiton_Shark]

Feel pretty uninspired really

I 'hope' Curry is being kept back for matches against the bigger packs - he really does deserve more caps

[RinTin]

Are we sure Ben isn't carrying a knock from La Rochelle?

[Flumpty]

At least the weather forecast is looking good for me and Flumpty Jnr for the game

This is a long delayed trip from 2019 when Covid bollixed everything up for everyone.

[Yareet]

At least the weather forecast is looking good for me and Flumpty Jnr for the game

This is a long delayed trip from 2019 when Covid bollixed everything up for everyone.

Wow, Flumps. I know you’re a trendsetter but Covid a year before the rest of Europe

[Flumpty]

At least the weather forecast is looking good for me and Flumpty Jnr for the game

This is a long delayed trip from 2019 when Covid bollixed everything up for everyone.

Wow, Flumps. I know you’re a trendsetter but Covid a year before the rest of Europe

World renowned global trendsetter - who unfortunately loses track of time

I was sooooooo looking forward to going in 2019 (aka 2020) when it was all called off. In hindsight, it was a good thing, as I'd had a knee op not long before the game was due to be played and flying wouldn't have been the wisest thing post op.

[poyntonshark]

Whilst I agree entirely that he deserves more caps, from a Sale perspective, I'll be happy if Ben takes no part in the 6N

[ledzepsfr]

I don't like particularly like this team, but as mentioned already SB was never going to re invent the wheel.

The annoying thing is that this is, realistically, the best game to blood new players and just try something new. Instead we 1 new cap in the backs (won't play again when Lawrence and Manu are back) and a new cap at 6. No Pearson, no Curry, no chance for Finn Smith to start a game, no Roebuck anywhere. Again a man who plays as a centre has been put on the wing ahead of a player who only plays wing. How demoralising is that!

I like the guys on the bench. CCS, Dann, Smith and Feyi-Waboso will bring some spark and energy (assuming we have Italy on the canvass). If we are struggling though I doubt the new guys will get on.

Pretty uninspired by this but lets see how we play.

@ale shark enjoyed that.

Disappointed Roebuck not starting this game. As you said, best game to blood uncapped players whilst keeping experience to get the result.

[RinTin]

Marcus Smith out for a number of weeks, maybe the whole tournament.

Based on this Finn Smith needs minutes tomorrow. Error not starting him imo.

[Olyy]

Pretty uninspiring game today,
Thought Ford kicked well and grew into it with his passing game, but still far off his best - as are England, really.
Just don't think SB is the guy to get this squad firing on all cylinders

[poyntonshark]

I agree it wasn't the greatest game, but I think England may have turned the proverbial corner. Overall they don't seem as confused, there is a far greater will to play at a higher pace and not just kick possession away. The kicking has a purpose, Ford in the second half was excellent, getting back to his best. Still too many penalties, still not much sign of any imagination in the backs attacking-wise. I think the centres are currently the chief problem, they just seem to be there to shift the ball on, and neither of them even straightened the line (I know they both can, I've seen it so assume this is by design). Of course , we are missing Lawrence and Manu but that shouldn't stop the backs in their tracks. Manu isn't going to be around for much longer anyway and Lawrence has so far shown a similar propensity for the treatment table.
England were never going to suddenly become the great entertainers and the next 3 games are likely to be significantly tougher than the last two, but I've seen enough to suggest that Borthwick can and is changing the mentality, but it takes time.

[RinTin]

The one disheartening thing from my point of view was Fords lack of ability to get our backline firing again. Yes he played tactically well in that second half, but our backline attacking threat was minimal.

Dingwall took his try well, but again missed a lot of tackles and didn't do much else. Looking forward to Lawrence slotting back in.

[Olyy]

I was disappointed F.Smith and IFW didn't get on

I know it was a close game but Finn has shown enough for me to have trust in his ability to close a game - suggests to me that as soon as Marcus is back then his 6N is done. Hope I'm wrong as he looks the future at 10

The only times Daly looks decent is when he crops up in midfield - he should be in contention for the 13 or 23 shirts, he's not an international starting winger or fullback anymore, he used to have the pace to make up for his positioning issues but now it's not standout at international level anymore

[Lord Elpus]

I was disappointed F.Smith and IFW didn't get on

I know it was a close game but Finn has shown enough for me to have trust in his ability to close a game - suggests to me that as soon as Marcus is back then his 6N is done. Hope I'm wrong as he looks the future at 10

The only times Daly looks decent is when he crops up in midfield - he should be in contention for the 13 or 23 shirts, he's not an international starting winger or fullback anymore, he used to have the pace to make up for his positioning issues but now it's not standout at international level anymore

wot 'e said

It would be good to see Mitchell and Fin Smith paired for England. Yep the centres are a problem - no line busting capability and poor passing/taking passes. Again and again promising positions are spoiled by handling errors - usually from passes fired like bullets at someone 1m. away.

Watching England is so like watching Sale. Promising start, failure to score, two penalties against and concede at the other end, get on the wrong side of the ref. Both sides struggle for turnovers without at least one Curry.

If we dropped the embargo on foreign-based players we might have the makings of a half decent side. I think the next three games are going to be embarrassing.

Re refs - I think the current policy of giving the whistle to any Tom, Dick, or Harry from the southern hemisphere is mistaken.

[dinogyro]

The conversion kick thing was mad.

[Lord Elpus]

The conversion kick thing was mad.

I thought it showed wales had done their homework. Ford could have backheeled it over from there - I don't know why he mucked about.

[dinogyro]

The conversion kick thing was mad.

I thought it showed wales had done their homework. Ford could have backheeled it over from there - I don't know why he mucked about.

Yep, good point.

[Bucks1861]

I thought he was trying to run down the clock as we had a player in the bin.

[ageinghoody]

At least one Welshman seemed dubious that Ford's shuffle constituted " beginning his approach" ; Dan Biggar!

Don't suppose he'd dare say otherwise in view of the lengthy Macarena like performance that preceded most of his own kicks.

[SimonG]

At least one Welshman seemed dubious that Ford's shuffle constituted " beginning his approach" ; Dan Biggar!

Don't suppose he'd dare say otherwise in view of the lengthy Macarena like performance that preceded most of his own kicks.

To be fair those were about the only times during games when he wasn't moaning at the ref

[Surbiton_Shark]

Few random observations

Scotland/France

Very impressed with the young lad who came in last minute and played 15
The Scottish try at the end looked pretty clear and obvious - bit of common sense wouldn't have gone amiss HOWEVER
The incident earlier in the first half when France was attacking, very close to the Scottish line....Akker's brother - never on-side.....how on earth that was never spotted by the ref's team and god knows who the TMO was doing was poor. So prob evened out the result
The majority of the second half doing kick tennis - just plain awful. We are killing this sport from a spectator point of view.

England/Wales

Being positive....we started to look better and better the more the match went on, a bit like Sale we seem to swing from kick everything to pass everything.
It seemed a bit more fluent towards the end albeit it (like Sale again) not much coming from the midfield.
Freeman looks nice, Steward solid as crazy under the high ball - doesn't offer a lot else.
Forward pack solid but that's about it.

Negatives

The scrums.......I do remember last season getting so bored with the scrum process I started working out how much I paid for my ticket to watch the forwards reset and get ready again.....needs sorting
As we are slowly getting our act together on the pitch it's largely more getting the basics in place rather than the cherry on the top plus it's not exactly a stellar Welsh side.

The game we play away at Scotland will be fascinating

Really hope Ben Curry gets some soild time - I'm amazed he's not featured

[ale shark]

It would be nice to see a bit more of Cunningham South.

[Olyy]

LCD and Manu added to the squad:

[Olyy]

Watching England reminds me a lot of watching Sale, you get about 10 mins of really good play per game and then 70 of players looking like they've never trained together and struggle to match the basic skill level of u8s

Most players raise their game at international level but England seem to consistently play worse than the sum of their parts

[RinTin]

Watching England reminds me a lot of watching Sale, you get about 10 mins of really good play per game and then 70 of players looking like they've never trained together and struggle to match the basic skill level of u8s

Most players raise their game at international level but England seem to consistently play worse than the sum of their parts

Hate to say it, but a common factor in both is George Ford. We know he has a great tactical mind and can dictate territory, but sparking of attacks and linking with those around him both for club and country seem to be the lacking parts currently. Finn Smith on the other hand came on yesterday and looked very impressive.

[poyntonshark]

I honestly don't know what you were watching. Ford gave the backs plenty of opportunity to run, they simply refused to catch the ball. Lawrence in particular was a waste of time. Individual errors, dozens of them, that Scotland ruthlessly exposed were England's undoing. Finn Smith is likely the future, so long as he can translate his talents to test rugby, but I didn't see anything impressive yesterday. Not much wrong, difficult missed kick and spilled high ball catch apart.

[Flumpty]

I honestly don't know what you were watching. Ford gave the backs plenty of opportunity to run, they simply refused to catch the ball. Lawrence in particular was a waste of time. Individual errors, dozens of them, that Scotland ruthlessly exposed were England's undoing. Finn Smith is likely the future, so long as he can translate his talents to test rugby, but I didn't see anything impressive yesterday. Not much wrong, difficult missed kick and spilled high ball catch apart.

I'm with you on this poynton, with Ford on the pitch, I thought that we were still "in it".

[RinTin]

I watched Ford show great tactical awareness and game management (drop goal excellent decision) to put us in the right areas of the pitch, but I also saw him again fail to spark a backline containing 3 of the best attacking threats in the premiership this season in Lawrence, Freeman and Furbank. I watched him throw a ball at Lawrence's feet in the first half, followed by a shocking pass to Furbank which led to the second DVDM try. I then saw Finn Smith come on and England march their way up the pitch in attack. After Feyi-Waboso scored we were going hard and playing positive attacking rugby. Had Smith nailed the conversion I was sure the draw was possible if not more.

No doubting Fords experience, his game management or his tactical ability, but that's 3 games in a row now against the 3 weakest teams (France debatable) where we haven't looked anything near fluid. This lack of backs cohesion and fluidity is something we have all flagged on here as a problem with Sale as well. Hell I even remember a debate on this forum about whether RDP would be better at 10 than Ford for us this season - you don't see that debate around Farrell, M Smith, Finn Smith, Russell etc.