By Olyy
#8755
chris1850 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:47 pm
Olly. Please keep the updates coming! On a coach in Austria at the moment and can't bear the tension!!
Feel the same watching!
Chiefs have their tales up now, but we're still playing well.
Game stopped as they went to counter from their 22 as Webber is down injured in midfield - bit of a blessing there as they had an overlap (but a long way to go)
By Olyy
#8756
TMO for an Exeter try,
They're getting away with murder atm though - break that got them to that position was pretty clear blocking, and they missed Kvesic dropping a knee into Jono's head (Jono was holding his shirt but as we saw with Morozov the retaliation is worse)



That should be an absolutely incredible try saver from Ashton, O'Flaherty loses control of the ball literally as it's about to touch the tryline - however JP overrules the TMO (who says no try) and awards the try


19-22 with 5 left
Last edited by Olyy on Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Alex
#8758
That is terrible referring, you could see it was short from the other angle but Doyle overrules the TMO despite him asking him to make the call
By Olyy
#8759
Wow, Exeter with a clear knock on from a box kick but JP claims it goes backwards
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#8760
Full time 19 - 22. Only the bp chucked away and not the game. Exeter losing bp.
User avatar
By Alex
#8761
We did well to hold on there, got absolutely nothing from Doyle in the 2nd half
By Olyy
#8762
Would've gladly taken a LBP pre-game, so a win is fantastic.

Dropped off massively in the 2nd half, but Exeter are top of the league for a reason and aren't gonna roll over for anyone, especially at home.

That 10+mins of goalline defence, despite eventually ending in a try, was as impressive as any of the tries scored. Think we held them up 3? 4? times.
By Clutch
#8763
Difficult to analyse that second half.

Staggering one eyed refereeing at the scrum. Basically they were getting battered so decided to early drive and stand up and steal the penalty.

Heroic defence against the persistent cheating. JP at one point told them to stay up but couldn’t be bothered as he was focussing on the scrum mess.

Then basically deliberately disregarded the laws. He said no try was the original decision. 1 of the 2 angles looked short. The other was more debatable but not clear.

On the plus side we were lucky not to see yellow.
Alex liked this
By Olyy
#8766
My stream cut out for the last 4 mins so I didn't see - My guess(/pick) would be Dan du Preez
By Rich E
#8768
Really looked fresh and "at it" especially in the first half. Second half defence must have taken its toll.
Perhaps puts in context last week's team selection and the subsequent upside this week!!
A week's rest and kick on again, great stuff!
By Van Cannonball
#8773
Fantastic. Really tense following on Twitter. Not sure I’ll enjoy the 2nd half but bring on the replay!

Definitely validated the resting of players fresh for this game. To get the result away at Exeter, even when they’re missing a number of players, without Faf and Akker, and lets not forget what would’ve been a reserve 2nd row, is pretty huge.

Really should go into any game with confidence now.
By Clutch
#8776
Mom was “twin”. Not always easy to distinguish. I’d give it to JL as I have more of a soft spot for him
Olyy liked this
By Olyy
#8777
Special mention to Wilf and Hammersley as well, as I feel they cop a lot of stick.

Wilf is playing as well as I've seen him in a Sale shirt, recently, and I've always been a big fan of his. I hope he can keep this run of form up, because he's doing everything right atm - box kicking on point, quick and accurate pass and is marshalling well. He also dove in to hold up an Exe try in the first half. Think he's more than showing that Dimes was right not to try and sign a big name 9 to play behind Faf.

Hammersley not necessarily the flashiest of 15s but another solid showing for him - he's got the Mike Brown-esque ability to make a yard or two in contact regardless of how much traffic there is. He doesn't have Christian Wade-esque explosive side steps but has the uncanny ability to weave his way through defenders
By FarnhamShark
#8780
Being realistic, Exeter were without Slade, Hogg, Nowell Cuthbert & Devoto, and that's just the backs. Any win at Exeter is great, but let's not kid ourselves that we were more weakened than they were.
By StalyShark
#8781
Olyy wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:01 pm
My stream cut out for the last 4 mins so I didn't see - My guess(/pick) would be Dan du Preez
He was interviewed post match so I’d guess so.
By Olyy
#8782
FarnhamShark wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:18 pm
Being realistic, Exeter were without Slade, Hogg, Nowell Cuthbert & Devoto, and that's just the backs. Any win at Exeter is great, but let's not kid ourselves that we were more weakened than they were.
And we were without Akker, Lood, Beaumont, Wilson, T. Curry, Faf, AJ, Solomona.
8 internationals/4 world cup finalists/2 world cup winners

The premiership is a battle of squads not best XVs - can only play what's in front of you
Monty9 liked this
By Clutch
#8785
In those kind of games Cliff works well. We may have lost that with Faf 2nd half as he may have done something crazy.

His service isn’t as quick as Fafs but more accurate. He was also testing their defence which is good to see. But if we have to chance a game when we aren’t getting the upper hand up front he struggles.

Hammersley was v solid but not sure comparing him with Brown is fair! His selection depends on the balance of the rest of the 3/4 for me and maybe the opposition and whether it’s home or away. It’s a close thing so just play who’s in form.
By H's D
#8788
Fantastic Result away from home against a quality team.
Goes to show what can be achieved if you use your squad wisely, rotate where appropriate and your best XV come fresh to the field.
How many other teams will win away at Exeter? :dance: :clap: :clap: :clap:
By Surbiton_Shark
#8794
Watched via a dodgy stream.

Needless to say great result - real boost for the squad.

I'll admit to being fairly concerned during the first bit of the first half - we had a huge amount of time in their 22 and found ways, as we do, to mess it up - from memory an knock on by Cliff at a ruck, one of the De Preez losing the ball on the floor and Ross a few times also..........I thought Cliff was superb for our first try and an exception finish by Ashton.

It was typical that on one of exeter's few visits to our 22 that they scored. I was a bit surprised considering the number of pens they gave away they didn't get a yellow - though that evened up second half.

Massive moment in the first half was JVR's 'clumsy' challenge - if that was interpreted as a Red then it would have been a massive game changer. For me it was literally just clumsy though he really should have just gone lower.

Second half - epic defense during the 10 minute siege - I don't really know what was going on at the scrum - from my untrained eye it seemed that Connie literally was boring in every time.

Lineout was excellent plus we were disruptive for their lineout - I doubt their scrum-halves would want to meet any of the De Preez twins - any hestiation on their part and one of our twins plus Ben Curry normally wrapped them up.

Was surprised their try was given - once again an absolute supreme never give up defensive tackle by Ashton - he does that a lot - sets a super example.

Hammersely - superb under the high ball absolutely excellent.

Our game management I thought was a bit poor with 10 mins to go - we literally stopped playing a bit 'too' early and just kicked back a bit too much IMO. However getting that win will really boost confidence and something to improve on next time.

I still think we have much more to come as well - handling in the first half especially when we got close to their line was average at best - imagine when we can get that right plus some of the flashy stuff.

Final word - those De Preez boys in the forwards were superb! - Entire forward pack were excellent
By Elgar
#8883
IMO

if the pack play like that first half every week we'll rarely lose but even still - Cliff was fantastic - and I'm happy to admit I'm always suggesting we could get better 9 cover

RJVR was lucky not to get a red - even though clearly no intent.

Dollman has still got it! That was sharp for someone who gets a run out only every third week.

Not to take the shine off but does anyone else feel that Ousthuizen has not quite lived up to his billing yet?
User avatar
By IrishShark
#8884
We've played CO at loosehead when he's played last few years at tighthead it's hard to do that switch seamlessly
By Thekeg
#8889
Elgar wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:02 pm
IMO

if the pack play like that first half every week we'll rarely lose but even still - Cliff was fantastic - and I'm happy to admit I'm always suggesting we could get better 9 cover

RJVR was lucky not to get a red - even though clearly no intent.

Dollman has still got it! That was sharp for someone who gets a run out only every third week.

Not to take the shine off but does anyone else feel that Ousthuizen has not quite lived up to his billing yet?
I thought he started slowly but hit a good run of fork before the recent minor injury
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#9036
Late to theparty, but just finished watching the premrugbytv full match.

Yes Exeter were weakened, so were we, but any win at their place is big news. Could, probably should have been out of sight by half time. We still made a lot of mistakes at crucial times to scupper scroring chances. A fact which heartens me in a way, if we can win away at Exeter making mistakes, then IF we cut out the errors but keep the offloading intent then we could really roast someone ,any one.

Curates egg from JP, I like his communication, I think players usually kow where they are with him, but I couldn't fathom his thinking for that try (although I think the match result an accurate reflection of the game) and I think Exeter generally conned him at scrum time. First half particularly, they did a great impression of a 90's Wallabies pack and nose dived to ground at the slightest hint of pressure from Sale, he never batted an eyelid. I understand, though don't agree, why RJVR was carded. I also get the argument about being lucky not to see red, but I think just as strong an argument is to be made that he did nothing wrong, chest to chest tackle, arm wrapped below shoulder. The only collision was an accidental clash of heads.
User avatar
By Yareet
#9045
poyntonshark wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:53 pm
Late to theparty, but just finished watching the premrugbytv full match.

Yes Exeter were weakened, so were we, but any win at their place is big news. Could, probably should have been out of sight by half time. We still made a lot of mistakes at crucial times to scupper scroring chances. A fact which heartens me in a way, if we can win away at Exeter making mistakes, then IF we cut out the errors but keep the offloading intent then we could really roast someone ,any one.

Curates egg from JP, I like his communication, I think players usually kow where they are with him, but I couldn't fathom his thinking for that try (although I think the match result an accurate reflection of the game) and I think Exeter generally conned him at scrum time. First half particularly, they did a great impression of a 90's Wallabies pack and nose dived to ground at the slightest hint of pressure from Sale, he never batted an eyelid. I understand, though don't agree, why RJVR was carded. I also get the argument about being lucky not to see red, but I think just as strong an argument is to be made that he did nothing wrong, chest to chest tackle, arm wrapped below shoulder. The only collision was an accidental clash of heads.
Firstly, how great is it that the Prem Rugby site shows the whole game?

My take from the try was that JP saw the ball hit the line from the openside angle. Once he had that in his mind (and with no clear shot showing that the ball didn't touch the line) his decision was made. The frustration was that he switched from thinking it wasn't a try to thinking it was.

I'm also of the opinion that RJVR was a victim of the push to drive tackles down. If he had bent himself a fraction (I seem to remember he was very vertical), there probably wouldn't have been an issue.
By H's D
#9061
Not sure RJVR can be called a "victim". He was "guilty as charged" : Head to head clash as a result of a high tackle.
The move to make the game safer and the change in Laws to lower tackle height is well-established this season. Players know what they risk when they ignore it. His tackle was too high. That tackle was exactly the type that needs to be outlawed.
Had he hit him in his midriff it would almost certainly have been more effective, and legal.
RJVR will be kicking himself.

I know 'victim' was tongue-in-cheek monocular supporter-speak, but that sort of speak is fundamentally disingenuous. We get enough of that from Boris!
User avatar
By Flumpty
#9064
That hit/collision/tackle has been coming all season. Its clearly something Sale have worked on from restarts and it was only a matter of time before someone got cleared out by Rohan PropCentre moving a full tilt.
A few inches lower and it would have been "hit of the season".
A few inches higher and we would have been without PropCentre for a couple of months (or more !)

Fine margins etc etc
By Van Cannonball
#9072
It might be the way it’s being reffed, but that doesn’t mean I/we have to agree with it.

That’s a rugby collision for me, same as the one Jono was not punished for earlier in the season.

There are multiple reasons that players go higher at times, and not just because they want to hit high or are reckless.

The lower you go the less ability you have to change direction. If a player is receiving a kick and can go either way, then committing too low into a tackle gives less opportunity to shift weight in either direction and arms are less likely to be effective in that tackle. Now that might be moot on this occasion with the forward momentum Rohan took into the tackle, but it’s still just a collision. You can’t police contact out of the game, and injuries are often from the most innocuous incidents.
By Olyy
#9077
I didn't realise Kvesic got cited for the knee drop on Jonos head
They determined it was accidental and he didn't get a ban for it

Would be interested in seeing the footage again as live it looked like he "accidentally" fell onto Jono to try and demonstrate to the officials his shirt was being held. Don't believe the knee to the head was intentional but it didn't look like he was dragged down
User avatar
By Flumpty
#9079
Van Cannonball wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:47 pm
It might be the way it’s being reffed, but that doesn’t mean I/we have to agree with it. ............
You can’t police contact out of the game, and injuries are often from the most innocuous incidents.

The Laws of the game keep changing and if you don't play to the Laws you'll get caught out by the ref / disciplinary system. I appreciate that you/others may not agree with it, but there isn't much (other than having an online grumble !) that you can do about it. :hug:
By ageinghoody
#9080
Flumpty wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:35 am
That hit/collision/tackle has been coming all season. Its clearly something Sale have worked on from restarts and it was only a matter of time before someone got cleared out by Rohan PropCentre moving a full tilt.
A few inches lower and it would have been "hit of the season".
A few inches higher and we would have been without PropCentre for a couple of months (or more !)

Fine margins etc etc
I wonder what the verdict would be now on that incident against Gloucester a couple of seasons ago when Faf got his head "sandwiched" between those of Cips and (I think) Dan Robson, leaving Cips spark-out, Robson definitely stunned and Faf relatively unaffected.
User avatar
By Flumpty
#9081
ageinghoody wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:09 pm
Flumpty wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:35 am
That hit/collision/tackle has been coming all season. Its clearly something Sale have worked on from restarts and it was only a matter of time before someone got cleared out by Rohan PropCentre moving a full tilt.
A few inches lower and it would have been "hit of the season".
A few inches higher and we would have been without PropCentre for a couple of months (or more !)

Fine margins etc etc
I wonder what the verdict would be now on that incident against Gloucester a couple of seasons ago when Faf got his head "sandwiched" between those of Cips and (I think) Dan Robson, leaving Cips spark-out, Robson definitely stunned and Faf relatively unaffected.
or even more recently when Faf sent 36 into the middle of next week when we tubbed Glaws last season ?
By Van Cannonball
#9082
Well you see that’s exactly the point. You can say Rohan should know better as it’s the laws, but that hit by Faf is pretty much universally applauded and yet could be deemed reckless in the same way.

The bigger issue for me is the range of punishment coming from these inconsistent applications. If say a ref is inconsistent on line outs being straight or offside line or whatever, it can have a small impact on one game, but the inconsistency on something like a high tackle can be the difference between zero and a 6 week ban, and that’s way too much impact.
By H's D
#9083
To be honest, in the Premiership, I have yet to see a pair of cases where there IS demonstrable contemporaneous inconsistency. The system broadly works well.
The only lack of consistency I regularly observe is between different Countries, Leagues and Competitions. That is inevitably difficult to correct. But the processes are far less transparent, so that is an issue for judging as well.
Lots of Premiership offences initially appear to be inconsistent but once you read the detail of the relevant disciplinary hearings there are almost invariably enough differences beween the two cases to explain any significant discrepancy in punishment.
One might not agree with them being so significant, but the measured rational way the panel judges such things and the amount of detail they go into, are both usually impressive.
Some offences get missed of course, but that is often a different issue: someone has to cite a player.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the two DOR's had a quiet word with each other seeking, post match, 'quid pro quo' rose tinted glasses after any game where both teams could easily lose a player for a few weeks with offences that were missed, but no permanent damage resulted. 'If you don't raise issue A we won't raise issue B ,and C.'
Most are 'old school' and like to sort matters out themselves.
User avatar
By Yareet
#9090
ageinghoody wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:09 pm
Flumpty wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:35 am
That hit/collision/tackle has been coming all season. Its clearly something Sale have worked on from restarts and it was only a matter of time before someone got cleared out by Rohan PropCentre moving a full tilt.
A few inches lower and it would have been "hit of the season".
A few inches higher and we would have been without PropCentre for a couple of months (or more !)

Fine margins etc etc
I wonder what the verdict would be now on that incident against Gloucester a couple of seasons ago when Faf got his head "sandwiched" between those of Cips and (I think) Dan Robson, leaving Cips spark-out, Robson definitely stunned and Faf relatively unaffected.
Image

Lifting past the horizontal is expected to be a straight red now but at the time this tackle was widely praised.

The laws (and their interpretations) are changed constantly. Players have to adapt or face the consequences.
Flumpty and 1 others liked this
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By poyntonshark
#9098
The decision making framework for high tickles has a flow chart for the procedure refs are supposed to apply. You can se it here
That would suggest that RJVR was lucky not to see red. We could interpret that JP has seen it as I and at least van Cannonball saw it, as a rugby collision, but the guidelines don't yet allow him to let it go completely.

For the record, I broadly applaud the measures to reduce head contact and accept that for the greater good we will see some decisions that look to be taking things too far (even if those decisions frustrate me from time to time). With time I hope that the guidelines can be adjusted to allow refs more flexibility (though that generally leads to greater inconsistency)
By chris1850
#9101
poyntonshark wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:31 am
The decision making framework for high tickles has a flow chart for the procedure refs are supposed to apply. You can se it here
That would suggest that RJVR was lucky not to see red. We could interpret that JP has seen it as I and at least van Cannonball saw it, as a rugby collision, but the guidelines don't yet allow him to let it go completely.
Don't know if that was intentional or not but it made me laugh!

I suspect that if the rugby authorities try to encourage players to go lower with their tickling, there could be some unpleasant confrontations on the pitch though!
User avatar
By Lord Elpus
#9106
....or a welcome admission that Poynters' tackling was more like tickling as I'd always suspected. :chuckel:
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