By Centrethreequarter
#9567
A stronger Sarries team than last week:

15 Alex Goode
14 Rotimi Segun
13 Alex Lozowski
12 Brad Barritt ©
11 Alex Lewington
10 Manu Vunipola
9 Tom Whiteley
1 Rhys Carre
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Vincent Koch
4 Joel Kpoku
5 Callum Hunter-Hill
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Calum Clark
8 Jackson Wray

Replacements

16 Jack Singleton
17 Richard Barrington
18 Josh Ibuanokpe
19 Andy Christie
20 Sean Reffell
21 Ben Spencer
22 Duncan Taylor
23 Ali Crossdale
By AndaleManito
#9569
This is going to be tasty! Real point of future debate will be Ross vs. Wilson (when he's got a few more games under his belt) at 6
User avatar
By Yareet
#9572
Centrethreequarter wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:17 pm
A stronger Sarries team than last week:

15 Alex Goode
14 Rotimi Segun
13 Alex Lozowski
12 Brad Barritt ©
11 Alex Lewington
10 Manu Vunipola
9 Tom Whiteley
1 Rhys Carre
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Vincent Koch
4 Joel Kpoku
5 Callum Hunter-Hill
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Calum Clark
8 Jackson Wray

Replacements

16 Jack Singleton
17 Richard Barrington
18 Josh Ibuanokpe
19 Andy Christie
20 Sean Reffell
21 Ben Spencer
22 Duncan Taylor
23 Ali Crossdale
For comparison, the team that was hammered at The Stoop was similar to the above with a few changes:

Goode at 15 (Gallagher)
Barritt at 12 (Morris)
Whiteley at 9 (Wrigglesworth)
Carre at 1 (Barrington)
Wolstencroft at 2 (Singleton)

I’d say they’re now stronger at 15 and 12 but weaker in the other positions.
By Van Cannonball
#9574
Their pack looks similar, excepting Koch, so hopefully we still have some dominance there.

Collisions at 12 could be big.

Very odd to play Sarries with a stronger bench too.

Never take anything for granted away from home, and especially to Sarries, but we must have a good chance of getting a decent result.
By LJK
#9577
When co-presenting the BT programme last Monday night Faf said he would be back for Leics. game. Dimes had said that before as well and LDJ to appear then too.
Just wonder if the game will go ahead given the modern concerns about spectator safety? The Allianz stadium has cancelled games in the past for severe weather.
Can't see our quality backs selection getting much of a look in if the weather is grim, even given the artificial pitch
By FarnhamShark
#9578
In an interview on the offy Lood suggested Irish as his likely first appearance. I'd have thought he'd fancy Gloucester (with Mostert and Grobler!) the week before, though. That's when I'd love to see him!
By Olyy
#9610
Don't know if we just thought it was going to be the same game as last week but we are playing proper shit.

Need to switch on, and sharpish
User avatar
By dinogyro
#9621
wHY TRY TO KICK INTO THE WIND. yOU CAN SEE FROM THE FIRST 40 THAT IT WON'T WORK. Sorry about my caps lock.
By 45jumper
#9625
This is as bad as we've played in years, truly awful. We're getting dominated by Sarries thirds, for Christ's sake.
User avatar
By dinogyro
#9626
Commentator says - 'Sale has a habit of throwing in a few stinkers' Not our lineout, the whole game!
By Olyy
#9627
And there's the BP

Utter utter shite. I'm switched to the Tigers Wasps game
By Lord Elpus
#9628
36-22 ft. Good job we weren't playing the first team. Really poor result.

Wasps threw it away v Cheetahs. TT's throwing was p*ss poor.
By 45jumper
#9631
Absolute garbage. Jono Ross did what he so often does and pissed off the ref, meaning we never got the rub of the green. He then allowed himself to get dragged into a spat with Jackson Wray which necessitated the touch judge getting involved. I'm beginning to question whether he's actually a good captain. He's very good at leading by example but is too hot-headed and is abysmal at managing the referee.
Still, that shouldn't distract from a spineless and inept performance by us. We should have beaten that Saracens team comfortably but were never at the races until Warr came on. There didn't seem to be a gameplan, and yet again it was like we'd been on the beer the night before - lethargic and we looked like we'd rather be anywhere else. McGuigan diving on Segun after he scored and giving them another 3 points summed it all up - when the chips are down we tend to completely implode - where are the clear-headed leaders?
By Lord Elpus
#9632
We lack leadership & nous on the field - we have done for years since Braid left . Perhaps only Evans has some of the quality required.

I've posted many, many times on how Ross is a useless captain who does more harm than good for the side.
User avatar
By poyntonshark
#9634
Well, one thing I'm glad of is not to come here and see excuses. We were utter shit. Can't think of a single thing we did right in first 40 minutes until we actually held onto the ball and scored. Sarries made more ground kicking against the wind than we did kicking with it.
User avatar
By dinogyro
#9636
There can't be any excuses for that.

I didn't see any glaring mistakes from the ref.

I thought that either the game plan to kick was wrong or the players didn't follow the coach's plan.

Lot's of handling errors and penalties given away.
By chris1850
#9640
Just got back from the game. We were dross. Utterly clueless. Our kicking game was awful. We learned nothing from the Exeter away game in the HC. After watching England last week and Sarries in the first half, what on earth possessed WC to box kick high hanging balls in the second? If you are going to kick into the wind, it is pretty obvious the best tactic is low and flat, looking for field position. We were well beaten by the better organised team who coped with the horrendous conditions much better than us.

Agree too about the comments re Jono and his interaction with the ref. He was poor today again and listening on reflink WB was clearly irritated. Stark contrast to when Bryn skippered the other week, though I realise that leading the team is more than just being on the right side of the ref.

Worried about the injuries as well. Bryn, Ben and Akker all took knocks and van Cannonball was also replaced at HT though whether that was due to an injury, I don't know.

First visit to (the soon not to be) Allianz Park and two things in particular struck me.

Firstly, I will never again complain about any aspect of the AJB. Compared to AP, our place has first class transport links, with shuttles superbly organised. Our bar staff are superbly efficient, our pitch is fantastic and the general infrastructure of the ground is streets ahead. I have been to most of the Premiership grounds and AP is comfortably the worst of the lot.

Secondly, Saracens have the ubiquitous drummer(s). No problem with that but the total lack of respect shown to the opposition is, frankly, embarrassing. Every high ball we had to field and every line out throw to us, the clown with the sticks insisted on a drum roll in an effort to intimidate. Pathetic.

Finally, talking to a few of their fans and overhearing others. They are genuinely upset and embarrassed at the misdeeds of Wray and co over the salary cap issue. They certainly feel the issue was mishandled by the authorities, and we can probably all agree about that. However, there seemed to a general acceptance of the sanctions and an acknowledgement that their club has a great deal to do before it can hold its head up again.
By DavenportSharky
#9657
Well done to anyone who braved the conditions to go and see a very poor performance. Webber and Cliff were 2 of the older heads on that pitch and should have learnt lessons from last weekend and the weekend before. Instead of box kicking play the back to RDuP who should then have sent low trajectory kicks to touch or to open space. The first try was an embarrassment and surely you realise the problems during the marathon warm up they do?? The South Africans have probably never played in conditions like that and combined with the artificial pitch we were at considerable disadvantage. There were some reasonable performances but not many. Hammersley by and large did very well under the high ball. Warr played at great tempo when he was given his chance. The first try was well executed. Luke James added a threat too. Having watched the Leicester game on replay we SHOULD win on Friday night comfortably. I suppose Exeter and Sarries away in consecutive games would have looked a barren patch when the fixtures came out so overall four points I guess we would have taken at that stage.
By FarnhamShark
#9666
Very depressing. You can understand the knock-ons (although we seemed to be a lot more prone to them than Sarries), but the kicking with the wind in the first half was very poor, and the discipline terrible. Sarries were gifted field position time and time again. Just glad we had Hammersley at 15 - I don't think he missed a high ball all match, and there were lots of them. Noticeable that Warr never kicked the ball - just focused on keeping possession - and it worked. We've got lots of talented players, but seem to be far less than the sum of the parts. I agree that Ross is excellent at pissing off refs - not sure who the best long-term replacement would be, though - Josh Beaumont?
By Surbiton_Shark
#9675
My son and I braved the weather and went...as it's still raining here - some random musings

I thought before the game that this was the kind of match which really shows if we are going to be SERIOUS top 4 contenders

The start was ominous - made a hash of the start, pushed back to a throw from our own line, quite the overthrow and a try to them.

The day you thought would be good for Rohan.....eventually when we decided to pass it to him (perfect pass) - he dropped it. If he isn't spending an extra hour at training on passing/catching then he's no chance of getting in the SA team and just wastes his undoubted talent. Might seem harsh but it's a beyond a joke now

Condition were awful - no doubt - yet again it highlighted a few things.

Our passing/catching compared to Sarries was a stark contrast - they do the basics very well and very consistently. Our catching over the past few seasons has always been somewhat inconsistent. We do have a number of players with 'hard hands' and it doesn’t show any signs of improvements – other teams are happy to retain the ball and pass it around without fear of dropping it – we are not one of those teams.

Another negative was our kicking game - in the first half the wind was really with us so if you kicked it - generally it went long - Goode (absolute class act) handled everything with ease and return it with interest. Second half - the kicking was just a joke (Cliff I'm afraid) - how Cliff nor the other 14 players on the field and all the coaches never worked out 'lads this kicking isn't working - let's do something different' is beyond my simple mind. We seemed to just go about the business.

The backs actually looked quite good and the De Preez 3 all had good games. Hence keeping the ball in hand was critical - whether it's the game plan to just kick for territory or our lack of faith in being able to catch it forced even more kicking I don't know - just really naive tactics.

Haven't seen the penalty count but it must have been awful from us. Webber had a game to forget especially the first half - he seemed to be a one man penalty machine - again why no-one said to him - stop pushing it for a while at the breakdown just highlights our lack of game management.

Hammserley dealt with all high balls nicely though really messed up 2 - one of which nearly lead to a breakaway try - he still offers very little in attack though to be fair every time he caught a ball - the Sarries players were a nana-second from smashing him - in stark contrast to our kick/chase.

Everytime Luke James is on the rugby pitch he does something positive - I really would look at starting him – maybe whilst Rohan has extra catching practise

Regardless of Sarries success being founded on dubious financial trickery you can't argue with their workrate - their forwards outplayed ours - I know you get stats on forwards showing their workrate of time on the ground, getting up etc., be interesting to see the comparisons. At times they kept getting really quick ball whereas our ball was really slow – overall this will be, I’m sure, what will hurt Dimes the most – their workrate and desire was greater than ours.

Warr was great when he came on - he made a few darts - he's clearly a brave lad and doesn't mind the physical stuff - he passed nicely and we finally played a bit of rugby - this also happened as Sarries switching off a touch as the game was safe. However a good prospect for the future.

Couple of other observations as we braved the sideline - nice way to watch rugby is the first point. Ashton/Goode really had some good banter. The rule about enforcing quicker play from the caterpillar rucks doesn't seem to be doing anything. It was also very nice of the Saracens 'ambassadors'/stewards to ask if we wanted to move to the seating in the main stand.

I hope this games serves as a major wake up call for the team – should be a big response for next week – particularly the forwards. Bar the De Preez twins/Ross the rest of them didn’t’ seem to add much
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