User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12224
May payments will be taken. (email received today) Justified since PRL still intend to play outstanding matches.

I doubt they will, but am happy to pay.
ARFC Warrior liked this
By Neiljk
#12233
Hmmm, I think they are starting to skate on thin ice a little.

Clearly the current service can’t be provided and there is little prospect of getting any rugby any time soon. On the balance of probabilities I think likely that the season will be abandoned or at best played behind closed doors.

Where I can appreciate the cash flow pressure at the club many people are not on fixed incomes and I suspect many have been furloughed and/or experienced a drop in income since lockdown.
Abmatt liked this
By ROLLO
#12234
I think that this will only work if the club make some ST conession for next season if this one isn't completed.
On the other hand I think it quite reasonable that if folk are suffering cash shortages because of CONVID, then a proportionate ST refund must be offered if the season isn't completed . Likewise those who have booked normal tickets or hostpitality that cannot be fulfilled as first envisaged.
Abmatt liked this
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12236
I also believe the season won’t be completed.

This is PRL’s intransigence, and puts the clubs in a very difficult position re. ST payments, and I can’t imagine any clubs are going to offer refunds for those who paid up in full in advance.

Any form of recognition next season would of course be welcome, always assuming that there’s a club still functioning to make that gesture.
By A38
#12238
There are so many unknowns about this wretched virus. For instance, there seems to be some concern in Germany about the possibility of a second peak there and the papers this morning are worried about children being at more risk than previously thought.

Against the background of uncertainty, I cannot think that we shall see live rugby at Sixways before the Autumn.

Whether there will be Premiership games played behind closed doors for a TV audience will remain to be seen.

If there are to be no live games at Sixways do we expect something back? This sort of thing is in the news today:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52483453

It's all very well being entitled to a refund for, say, a lost holiday but that presupposes that the holiday company involved is still solvent and can actually afford to make the refund. Many businesses in that situation may well have folded and the money and the holiday will have been lost.
By ROLLO
#12243
Interesting thread on the Exeter SN site. They are already taking DD's for next season. They are however talking about refunds etc., both for htis season and next. This is going to be a hellova mess if we are not careful. I think that Glos have been taking money for ST's as well, I dont' think they have a DD system.
By FlipFlop
#12257
Don’t want to really use the expression, fraud, but a number of businesses, not only sporting businesses and their Directors are having to tread a very fine line at present around the areas of justifying their business as a going concern with significant income reductions occurring while simultaneously incurring costs at broadly fixed levels( unless negotiated out temporarily) and this brings the spectre of wrongful or fraudulent trading into view. Not suggesting this is the case necessarily at Sixways or Morecambe, but the continued DD take at present under unknown circumstances is maybe at the murky end of decent practice. After all, we know what BT Sport have done re DD’s while no sport to show. Couldn’t WW do something similar with our ‘community values’?
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12259
FlipFlop wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:14 am
Don’t want to really use the expression, fraud, but a number of businesses, not only sporting businesses and their Directors are having to tread a very fine line at present around the areas of justifying their business as a going concern with significant income reductions occurring while simultaneously incurring costs at broadly fixed levels( unless negotiated out temporarily) and this brings the spectre of wrongful or fraudulent trading into view. Not suggesting this is the case necessarily at Sixways or Morecambe, but the continued DD take at present under unknown circumstances is maybe at the murky end of decent practice. After all, we know what BT Sport have done re DD’s while no sport to show. Couldn’t WW do something similar with our ‘community values’?
I agree that it’s a real concern. But I excuse WW (just!) on the basis that PRL insist they’re going to finish the season....which muddies the water to an extent. But it’s a marginal issue for sure.
By FlipFlop
#12260
Well the 2019/20 Champ Cup QF, SF and F will end in the 2020/21 season based on latest proposal. Real risk that 2020/21 Euro comps may be dropped to facilitate plan to complete this season’s comp, all with players who’s contract may end on 1st July but can’t play in the comp for new team as not registered!

It’s going to be a mucking fuddle for sure. Just hope business scruples don’t go by the wayside in the commercial murk.
By ROLLO
#12262
I suppose in the WW direct debit case apart from what TT says that we are being treated in the same was a those who paid upfront for their ST's which I think is fair. If there were to be any recompence then it all has to be dealt with at the same time.
Where there could be a problem is in trying to sell tickets for next season , unless there was some sort of disclaimer. It is a similar situation to WCCC but there members have access to an AGM and the clubs accounts so are in a much better position to judge what they would or would not like to do. WW is a business with not much transparancy for its supporters.
By A38
#12263
ROLLO wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:29 am
WW is a business with not much transparancy for its supporters.
I would expect, and hope, that any invitation to renew STs would be accompanied with enough information to reassure supporters that we can expect a full season at Sixways.
User avatar
By Latecomer
#12264
A38 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:52 am
ROLLO wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:29 am
WW is a business with not much transparancy for its supporters.
I would expect, and hope, that any invitation to renew STs would be accompanied with enough information to reassure supporters that we can expect a full season at Sixways.
I think it highly unlikely that any such reassurance could be 100% guaranteed for the foreseeable future.
There's a reasonable chance that social distancing in some form may be with us for a year or two yet !!
By g2forumsm
#12267
Lots of Machiavellian thoughts on here today. I was under the impression that every other club is doing the same as us and indeed some are taking money for next season. It’s almost like some people want to infe4 the worse regardless of the actual truth
patgadd liked this
User avatar
By Abmatt
#12268
I suppose the truth is that this is a warriors message board, and a warriors issue is being discussed. Admittedly it’s not an issue exclusive to us.
By FlipFlop
#12269
g2forumsm wrote:Lots of Machiavellian thoughts on here today. I was under the impression that every other club is doing the same as us and indeed some are taking money for next season. It’s almost like some people want to infe4 the worse regardless of the actual truth
What’s the actual truth g2forumsm?
By g2forumsm
#12270
FlipFlop wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:18 pm
g2forumsm wrote:Lots of Machiavellian thoughts on here today. I was under the impression that every other club is doing the same as us and indeed some are taking money for next season. It’s almost like some people want to infe4 the worse regardless of the actual truth
What’s the actual truth g2forumsm?
Haven’t a clue, but we are doing the same as most of the prem wrt this season and less than some wrt to next season, and that’s all we know, anything else is supposition
SimonG liked this
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12271
g2forumsm wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:01 pm
FlipFlop wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:18 pm
What’s the actual truth g2forumsm?
Haven’t a clue, but we are doing the same as most of the prem wrt this season and less than some wrt to next season, and that’s all we know, anything else is supposition
Yes that’s fair. There are very few facts to deal with, apart from the obvious health related issues, and on a micro scale of importance the fact that WW decided to take our May DDs, with which I’m quite happy!
By Asterz
#12356
I am by no means flush, but I wouldn’t dream of asking for this seasons remaining ST balance back and would but next season’s tomorrow, given the chance.

I get the impression our club is very finely financially balanced, so any shock would have dire consequences going forward.
By A38
#12576
Before all the virus hit I was very much in two minds about whether I would renew my ST for a further year. Results had been on the disappointing side latterly after a promising start to the season and I feared, pre the Saracens outcome, yet another relegation fight. Having been a ST holder for over 20 years it would have been a major break.

But how the world has changed.

The factors going into a decision to renew are rather different now and there will be much to consider not the least of which will be how PRL will organise itself going forward post lockdown.

All that said, I do have to acknowledge that the club has made some very welcome gestures with its discount and freeze offers and it may be that I will have to demonstrate my loyalty for a further season.

If there is to be a season...
TeflonTed, SimonG liked this
User avatar
By EveTec
#12578
For those of you who are interested I also found this on the Warriors site:-

2020/21 SEASON TICKET
If you bought a Season Ticket in 2013/14 and your seat was affected by the Stadium recategorisation we will continue to honour the 12/13 seating category. Grandfather Rights are automatically applied and the correct price charged.
A38, TeflonTed, ARFC Warrior liked this
By ROLLO
#12579
I am very much with you A38, but it will be a leap of faith rather than anything else.
Faith gives substance to our hopes and makes us sure of realities we do not see.
User avatar
By patgadd
#12580
If you cease going to Sixways it will mean that you and your spouse are stuck with each other all the time.

Just saying......
By Neiljk
#12581
The pricing looks good to me but the big question is what the club is proposing in the event the season doesn’t happen partially or at all, or what happens in the event that some or all of the season is played behind closed doors.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12582
I share the concerns and the doubts.

The direct debit system reduces any potential loss in the case of disaster, and as Neil says the pricing package is attractive.

I’ll be renewing on DD.
By Neiljk
#12583
This is a farcical mess already. I understand the difficulty of the uncertainty but the least the club could do is level with us and communicate properly.

It may be that the club needs the season ticket cash to keep coming to keep solvent. We don’t know, because the club owners have never told us, how the purchase was financed.

There are 2 very obvious questions right now which relate to refunds for this season if it gets cancelled or played behind closed doors and what happens next season in the event of either.

It’s not honest imho to market tickets and take money without answering either questIon even if that answer is the club saying financially it can’t do either. If the club were to say they can’t and even say they need the cash to keep going, then I’m going to be a lot more inclined to sign up in the knowledge of what I’m signing up to. Fudging the issue with statements of good intent and hiding behind PRL statements isn’t good enough.

We’ll see what the Q and A yields tomorrow, but I predict nothing of consequence.
User avatar
By Latecomer
#12590
Neiljk wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:45 pm
Fudging the issue with statements of good intent and hiding behind PRL statements isn’t good enough.
We’ll see what the Q and A yields tomorrow, but I predict nothing of consequence.
I think the owners will tell you what they CAN tell you (with some certainty), until such time that PRL stop prevaricating and make that fateful decision.
When it comes to close contact, rugby as a sport is on its own isn't it ? Scrums, lineouts, rucks and mauls. Head against head in all those parts of the game (not to mention the odd kamikazi clear out and the inevitable 'handbags'). Cant see a way myself of safely finishing this season.
Then I think it will be a case of the individual's goodwill, generosity and loyalty as to whether they press for a refund or not.
For my part, I wont be pressing for a refund and 99% certain to renew next year (although I might wait until the deadline of 15th July) before pressing the button. Al lot can still happen between now and then ...............
patgadd, A38, BishBash liked this
User avatar
By GoldFinch
#12592
All but 3 of the Premiership teams have launched their 20/21 season tickets, it would be interesting to see what the uptake is. I suspect that other clubs fans have similar misgivings about being able to actually watch live rugby in a stadium any time soon.

Season Tickets
Bath
Tigers
Exeter
Saints
Quins
Falcons
Not Nots
Glaws

Not out yet
Wasp
Sharks
Brizz
User avatar
By Abmatt
#12593
As I posted else where I think it is asking a bit much to advertise something that you do not know yet if you can provide. What happens if next season is behind closed doors re. refunds?

I for one will be demanding a full refund for services that were not provided. And before the haters start the sum involved are considerably more than a ST.

ST holders should consider themselves lucky they have had some communication from the club. I have had nothing since mid-March.
Last edited by Abmatt on Thu May 21, 2020 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
By SimonG
#12594
Abmatt wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:06 am
As I posted else where I think it is asking a bit much to market something that you do not know yet if you can provide.

I for one will be demanding a full refund for services that were not provided. And before the haters start the sims involved are considerably more than a ST.

ST holders should consider themselves lucky they have had some communication from the club. I have had nothing since mid-March.
By "haters" presumably you mean people who disagree with you?

Might have reflected better on you if you had said that don't you think?
User avatar
By Abmatt
#12599
plural noun:
haters
a person who greatly dislikes a specified person or thing

I don’t think it was a bit strong as there may be those who could take offence that I dare demand money back from the club in these times, and see it as sticking the knife in when we should be doing all we can to support the club.

Well I see it differently. No matter what has gone on the club still have financial obligations that they should endeavour to uphold. Or at least communicate how they are going to rectify the situation. Which they have not.

But they are asking for money in blind faith for a season that we do not yet know in what form it will take place.

I have, and will continue to support the club in what ever way I can, but I have my limits.
User avatar
By patgadd
#12604
Nor to me. My guess would be that he was a relative of Dean Jonathan Swift, author of A Tale of a Tub and Gulliver's Travels, who went mad before dying in 1745. I may be wrong,of course....
By Neiljk
#12605
Well there is more the club can say without hiding behind PRL.

They can state their position should the current season be cancelled and they can state what will happen in the event next season is compromised.

I’m totally happy if the honest answer to that is they can’t afford to make refunds, at least then we can make a choice knowing the risks.

Asking for money without that set out for me is not right.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12606
As far as this season goes the reimbursement policy as outlined in Warriors Weekly News email received at 17:36 today seems pretty fair to me.
User avatar
By Latecomer
#12612
TeflonTed wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 5:49 pm
As far as this season goes the reimbursement policy as outlined in Warriors Weekly News email received at 17:36 today seems pretty fair to me.
I think there is an option there to just about suit everybody - well done the club I say.
Not a huge amount of substance in the Owners video, but enough to give me hope for the future (whenever that might be).
Great to hear they are using the current period to push things along with the Council regarding the stadium development.
By Neiljk
#12613
I think really good the club set it’s stall out on refunds today. Nice and clear - no issues for that as an approach for me.

The season is dead though. That said if they try to restart every chance Sarries will be finishing this season in the prem at the same time as starting next season in the championship
By A38
#12615
It is a truism to say that there is so much about the virus which is not known and I have every sympathy with anybody who is having to make any pandemic related decision against the background of ignorance (in the true sense of that word).

Accordingly I don't think that the owners have done a bad job at all. Their hands are tied by not knowing whether the 2019/2020 season will continue nor when the 2020/2021 season will start.

There is talk in the press about the possibility of the 2019/2020 season being played out in the late summer / early autumn but until more is known about the virus, "herd immunity", vaccines, anti-body tests etc etc it is all just talk - understandably. There is nobody to blame about that, not even PRL. There is too much uncertainty.

But the owners have built one certainty into the new ST scheme. If I am to keep the Direct Debit option and my grandfather rights I need to sign up by the closing date of 5 June.

I must say that I am minded to do this. Or I was until I read this morning that the virus could (repeat could) be with us indefinitely and that people of my age might have to abide by social distancing when the rest of the World gets back to some sort of normal.

In those circumstances I wonder if it might be possible for those of us who couldn't (or shouldn't) sit in the stands to see matches over Premiership TV live as they happened - maybe as part of the ST package?
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12616
[quote=A38 post
But the owners have built one certainty into the new ST scheme. If I am to keep the Direct Debit option and my grandfather rights I need to sign up by the closing date of 5 June.

I must say that I am minded to do this. Or I was until I read this morning that the virus could (repeat could) be with us indefinitely and that people of my age might have to abide by social distancing when the rest of the World gets back to some sort of normal.

In those circumstances I wonder if it might be possible for those of us who couldn't (or shouldn't) sit in the stands to see matches over Premiership TV live as they happened - maybe as part of the ST package?
[/quote]

Yes...
2 excellent key points.

1) Grandfather rights and fixed prices going fwd are valuable benefits to sign up to for those eligible.

2) PRL could (with the clubs) provide paid up ST holders with real-time access to broadcast match footage.

There won’t be a vaccine in time for the start of the season, social distancing in the stadium with ST holders needing to be relocated from their usual seats, and fitted in with other attendees is an almost impossible admin nightmare.

I can see Zoom parties of live PRL streaming matches as a possibility, and at least our little group will be spared having to listen to the Brummie across the aisle constantly shouting “yer a muppet ref” at Sir.
By g2forumsm
#12619
ROLLO wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:07 pm
Abmat is owed a four figure sum for something he will not get. Haters still a bit strong though IMHO.
If I was Abmat, I would be on to my credit card company and put the amount under dispute and try that avenue to get my money back. For Abmats amount if that doesn't work there is always the small claims court! I will be taking this tack with Exeter and Wasps for refunds of my away match tickets if they follow the same tack as Warriors and not give a refund for a service as advertised not being offered on the date it was advertised!

I actually think it was quite poor of Warriors to say no refunds if the match is played (caveat - for this season I have written the ST money off, but for one off purchases, I do not agree with this policy)
User avatar
By Abmatt
#12622
Sorry. Paid on debit card.

Re. Refunds. You will get one if the game is cancelled or played behind closed doors. At least that’s what I read for warriors.

Wasps I do not know, but I have tickets I also want refunding.
By g2forumsm
#12623
Abmatt wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:48 am
Sorry. Paid on debit card.

Re. Refunds. You will get one if the game is cancelled or played behind closed doors. At least that’s what I read for warriors.

Wasps I do not know, but I have tickets I also want refunding.
Unlucky on the debit card front, I hadn't realised that it didn't apply for that. I agree with your understanding of the Warriors statement, hence my comments about putting the amounts for Exeter and Wasps under dispute in my case, if the Warriors approach is to be the "standard" PRL approach
User avatar
By BishBash
#12624
Random challenge for those with too much time on their hands.

If we were to occupy the stadium with 2m+ spacing, what would be the capacity, bearing in mind some supporters attend as pairs/families.

Answers by 5pm.
Please show your working out.

Lunch calls.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12627
BishBash wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:14 pm
Random challenge for those with too much time on their hands.

If we were to occupy the stadium with 2m+ spacing, what would be the capacity, bearing in mind some supporters attend as pairs/families.

Answers by 5pm.
Please show your working out.

Lunch calls.
Good question. My answer is 12.

If I'm wrong, I look forward to your revelation of the correct answer, with your working out.
patgadd liked this

Cheeky

LI Squad List, Incomings, Outgoings

No idea on Myler, but a three year deal for some[…]

Sadly not just the populace. With the rest of Euro[…]

New Laws/Trials

According to today's Observer, "The Premiersh[…]