User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12486
Chris Hewett writes :-

“So Matt Kvesic is on his way back to Worcester, his rugby alma mater. The flanker’s ramblings took him down the road to Gloucester, then further south to Exeter, and he will return to Sixways a wiser player for his travels and travails.
Yet it is not clear that the Midlanders will ever extract full value from their own academy graduate.
Kvesic is no great age, but few England qualified back-rowers in recent memory have worked harder or more selflessly or shown such an inexhaustible appetite for the fray.
As a result, he is probably feeling every day of his 28 years.
What is it about the Warriors that prevents them hanging on to their best talent?
Think Dylan Hartley, Tom Wood, Matt Mullen, Mikes Benjamin, Graham Kitchener (now back, but in his dotage).
Then ponder how rapidly the club might have progressed had players of such rich potential reached fulfilment together.
Continuity is not what happens at Sixways, sadly. Which explains why Worcester always finish in the bottom half of the Premiership table. Which is why ambitious players leave. Which is what we call a vicious circle.”

What a nasty little piece. Pointless and rather vindictive. I’ve written to TRP expressing my hope that we can look forward over the coming weeks to similar snipes at London Irish and Newcastle Falcons, as other regular no-hopers, or maybe they’ll give more space to reminding us how harshly the Saintly Sarries have been dealt with over their long term cheating to ensure their place at the top of the table away from the more honest riff-raff below.
patgadd, A38, Latecomer and 2 others liked this
User avatar
By patgadd
#12492
SimonG wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:15 pm
I'm surprised anyone even bothers with TRP let alone is surprised by the rubbish in it.
Fair point, but then where do you get your fix? The ST has the smug and pompous Stephen (the voice of rugby - not) Jones, who I notice today is still defending Saracens as if he were being paid to do so, and TRP has the equally smug Fissler. I stopped getting the Telegraph when John Reason - known to the England camp as John Treason - was sneering at the Whites at every opportunity, but I confess I have no idea who's worth reading now.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12493
SimonG wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:15 pm
I'm surprised anyone even bothers with TRP let alone is surprised by the rubbish in it.
Yes I disappoint myself regularly by not cancelling, but my newsagent is a friend of many years standing, and I like to give him the order.

And to be completely fair, it's not always all rubbish.
User avatar
By Latecomer
#12495
TeflonTed wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:57 am
Chris Hewett writes :-

“So Matt Kvesic is on his way back to Worcester, his rugby alma mater. The flanker’s ramblings took him down the road to Gloucester, then further south to Exeter, and he will return to Sixways a wiser player for his travels and travails.
Yet it is not clear that the Midlanders will ever extract full value from their own academy graduate.
Kvesic is no great age, but few England qualified back-rowers in recent memory have worked harder or more selflessly or shown such an inexhaustible appetite for the fray.
As a result, he is probably feeling every day of his 28 years.
What is it about the Warriors that prevents them hanging on to their best talent?
Think Dylan Hartley, Tom Wood, Matt Mullen, Mikes Benjamin, Graham Kitchener (now back, but in his dotage).
Then ponder how rapidly the club might have progressed had players of such rich potential reached fulfilment together.
Continuity is not what happens at Sixways, sadly. Which explains why Worcester always finish in the bottom half of the Premiership table. Which is why ambitious players leave. Which is what we call a vicious circle.”

What a nasty little piece. Pointless and rather vindictive. I’ve written to TRP expressing my hope that we can look forward over the coming weeks to similar snipes at London Irish and Newcastle Falcons, as other regular no-hopers, or maybe they’ll give more space to reminding us how harshly the Saintly Sarries have been dealt with over their long term cheating to ensure their place at the top of the table away from the more honest riff-raff below.
I take it he didn't mention our latest crop of academy talent that have all signed up ?
Or make mention of our current strategy to build our future teams around our academy graduates (which should be blatantly obvious to even a second rate journalist that does his research properly).
By A38
#12496
Latecomer, I very much agree with you. What he says was the content of many threads on the "other board" several years ago and acknowledged by the current ownership / management who have shown every intention of addressing the issue.

Under researched and he didn't mention a certain hooker who went to a certain club either.

The issue of marquee players and salary inflation runs parallel with the retention issue for many clubs.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12497
Latecomer, no of course he didn’t.

And I don’t anticipate they’ll print my email comments either, but I feel better for having written it.

And I think Neale Harvey, who actually writes more decent stuff than the other regulars, does monitor forum comments, so maybe he’ll care to respond here.

Or maybe not.
By SimonG
#12500
patgadd wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:21 pm
SimonG wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:15 pm
I'm surprised anyone even bothers with TRP let alone is surprised by the rubbish in it.
Fair point, but then where do you get your fix? The ST has the smug and pompous Stephen (the voice of rugby - not) Jones, who I notice today is still defending Saracens as if he were being paid to do so, and TRP has the equally smug Fissler. I stopped getting the Telegraph when John Reason - known to the England camp as John Treason - was sneering at the Whites at every opportunity, but I confess I have no idea who's worth reading now.
I just look at this and the SN boards. When something actually happens it is normally mentioned there. I miss out on the irrelevant nonsense peddled by the likes of Jones and Fissler so it's a win win situation!
By Underdog
#12502
Call me contrary but I can't see a lot in the extract above that I disagree with, and certainly reads to me like a common lament on our forums over the years.

It has been a vicious cycle in terms of players leaving, which delays our progress which then causes other players to leave.

I, and more pertinently the younger academy grads, would find it interesting to talk to Kvesic, Kitch and Cox to find out why they left, why they came back and whether it was worth it. I have a feeling we on here wouldn't necessarily like the answers. I suppose it's up to the owners and coaches to steer us to a potion where that uncertainty becomes less relevant to the likes of Ollie Lawrence.
Simba liked this
#12504
patgadd wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:30 pm
..... and would you care to share with us which magazine you buy clandestinely but hide inside the pages of TRP?

You’re showing your age there Pat. And Health & Efficiency Mag . ceased publication some decades ago.

Knowing your advanced level of skill on the keyboard, I’m perfectly sure you are familiar with xhamster et al.
User avatar
By patgadd
#12505
I don't think it's any secret why Kev and Kitch left, but both were under entirely different regimes from today, and that's the point. The Build From Scratch plan of Solly and the owners may or may not work, but it's totally different from what went on before.
#12508
Underdog wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:06 pm
I wouldn't say it's totally different but okay. I still think it's valid for a journalist to point out the problem we've all been moaning about for years.
The point surely is that the article could have been more balanced if the guy had taken the trouble to find out what the new owners and AS were trying to do to break the 'vicious circle'.
The players he quoted as leaving all left many years ago, arguably only 2 went on to greater things, the academy production line ground a halt for a while (thanks to Mr Little) and only in the few seasons are we really starting to reap the benefits of the rejuvenated academy.
Have to admit I haven't read the entire article, only Ted's quote so don't know the full context in which his comments were expressed.
User avatar
By TeflonTed
#12509
Latecomer wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:34 pm
Underdog wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:06 pm
I wouldn't say it's totally different but okay. I still think it's valid for a journalist to point out the problem we've all been moaning about for years.
The point surely is that the article could have been more balanced if the guy had taken the trouble to find out what the new owners and AS were trying to do to break the 'vicious circle'.
The players he quoted as leaving all left many years ago, arguably only 2 went on to greater things, the academy production line ground a halt for a while (thanks to Mr Little) and only in the few seasons are we really starting to reap the benefits of the rejuvenated academy.
Have to admit I haven't read the entire article, only Ted's quote so don't know the full context in which his comments were expressed.
There is no further context, that was the entire article which I copy typed because I thought it was worth doing.
And while recognising that the basic fact that we are a premiership bottom feeder is clearly true, I stand by my opinion that it’s a nasty spiteful little piece.
Latecomer liked this
#12518
It is hard to disagree with him, why did all our best players leave the club? Why have we never finished outside the bottom few?

Obviously the later is answered by the former and indeed it is a vicious cycle which has lacked continuity, I now feel we are heading towards a more planned approach and hopefully that helps us develop but all his questions are fair ones.
#12528
west brom warrior wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:30 am
It is hard to disagree with him, why did all our best players leave the club? Why have we never finished outside the bottom few?

Obviously the later is answered by the former and indeed it is a vicious cycle which has lacked continuity, I now feel we are heading towards a more planned approach and hopefully that helps us develop but all his questions are fair ones.
All his questions?

I really think he only asks one... “ What is it about the Warriors that prevents them hanging on to their best talent?”, and I think we’ve all come to understand the various answers to that question over the years.

My real gripe is not with the basic contention, because it’s true. But with the pointlessness of the piece, he might as well have just said “what a hopeless lot Worcester are, and will continue to be”. (So let’s all have a half page laugh at them while it’s quiet eh?)

If you don’t see it as a pointless spiteful nasty little piece then we’ll have to agree we see it differently.
patgadd, Latecomer, A38 liked this
#12535
Thats fine to say he should have mentioned all our academy prospects have signed up for next season but Hill and Lawrence aside none have made an impact in the first team of any measurable tangent yet and we remain drifting around the bottom of the league. Who knows with the players all signed up perhaps we will see over the next 2 seasons a move up the league table which in turn will help keep our best players.

As for him not saying it I am not sure that is an option for print journalism they cannot leave the pages blank and taking a little pot shot at Worcesters underachievement and lack of continuity is hardly anything more than a little jab in my opinion.
#12544
I'm not sure it's even really a jab, by that I mean not necessarily made with any mal intent. It just looks like lazy journalism to me, something, anything to fill a gap. As some have said it's basically accurate for Worcester's recent past. Unfortunately, it's likely to be rehashed in some form or other for a couple of years yet irrespective of the real situation.
By Freypal
#12551
My take is similar to poyntonshark above, reads more lazy than vindictive to me.

It's true up to the recent past. If the article had been written ending with something like "they've now managed to re-sign the emerging talents of Lawrence and Hill so it remains to be seen if they can turn the trend around" then it would have been fair.

Cheeky

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